So, USA's setting up another false flag war, but one that will bite us all in the ass

so when is Russia really gonna invade Ukraine, hm?
last week, Friday, no it's next Wednesday! etc etc
*face palm* :banghead:

And as usual, it's all really about geopolitics and greed, fuck all to do with peace, democracy or saving lives.
US demanding Germany shut down Nordstream2 when the Germans need gas desperately
and Biden & his masters selling them some at hugely inflated prices from Dubai, while treating the German leader like their bitch in public which has NOT went down well.
Even the Ukrainians have woken up to the fact the USA is using them as expendable stooges


And of course many will believe the official shit despite 60 fucking years of the USA stirring up wars all over the world with "false flag" BS and assassinations galore
Except, this time, they are getting too close to Russia for comfort

So, Putin has bluntly put it that if any US bomb or troops are on their soil, WW3 begins
But the US/Uk leaders just aren't listening, look at the fucking imbecile UK sent, or how Macron behaved.
And Biden? Up to his arse in corruption in Ukraine and dementia as well? Wagging the German leader like he's stuck on the end of his dick?

Yes I know Putin is a brutal SOB, but, that's the only way he's kept HIS country from being ass raped by the shit fuckers of the West who are substantially worse, see Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria etc left in ruins.
Hence why the Russians are prepared to go nuclear if they get invaded.
DAY GLOW FOR EVERYONE! :p

Go on Neoliberal/Necon supporting idiots, keep at it and see how much you enjoy the response.
China has actually *allied* with Russia, formally now, because of USA lunacy
kinda been missed in all the war hysteria, that has, or that China's had enough and it's the end of the "US Century"

I doubt they are gonna launch nukes unless actually invaded/bombed at home, in which case they WILL, they have very different outlooks ot the dumb ass scum running our nations, but I bet you they are about to unleash the economic catastrophe I've been talking about for months
Greed is the West's biggest Achilles heel, what all these mad wars are about, raping the planet for the last resources, the lies over inflation, unemployment and GDP.....

So, the UA's shadow leaders, whoever the fuck they are, have bled their nation dry warmongering and destroying all sane norms, and long as Russia/China stay out of US invasion and robbery the USA will collapse from it's own greed
But if they keep up this shit, then a wee bit of cyberwarfare, market manipulation has been or is done....economic implosion occurs in the West because all the sane norms, the laws and honest oversight have been removed.
I seriously believe the Chinese have set up a "2008 Financial Crisis" on steroids and can trigger it off if the USA keeps on with its shit, using the likes of Evergrande to suck the greedy bankers into a gigantic trap of their own making.

IF this economic collapse occurs, just like has happened before, those at the top will be dealt with by the street mob, horribly.
This will be bad beyond all belief, and thinking it cannot happen is fucking stupid and dangerous, as folk found out around 460 AD in Rome, 1917 Russia, etc

Is anyone listening?

I don't understand how so many people think that Russia massing troops on the Ukraine border is somehow orchestrated by the United States. What, did Biden call up Putin one night and just tell him to invade? We need some good ole fashioned MIC action over here now that we are no longer in Afghanistan?

At some point, you have to stop appeasing the dictator. He's already taken Crimea and now we are ok with him taking Ukraine? What happens when he starts taking countries farther west? We've already done this before and it wasn't pretty. I don't want to go to war either, but the more the west continues to cave to him, the more he's going to keep doing it. I don't know what the proper response is to this, and putting troops in the Ukraine to help defend them is actually pretty low on the list of responses I would like to see, but we are going to have to do something. I'm convinced there is no talking Putin out of invading. It's going to happen whether the west does anything or not. We just need to hope that crippling the Russian economy is worth it. Or even possible, Putin isn't stupid so I suspect he's cut some sort of deal with China to get whatever he needs despite any embargoes.

I don't like any of our options here. It's a shitty situation created by a piece of shit man who would do the world a favor if he would just drink one of his own radioactive cocktails.

Putin orders massive troop and equipment buildup on the border of Ukraine, Crimea (which they seized in 2014), and Belarus. Putin issued demands that Ukraine not be admitted into NATO and NATO not deploy forces to Poland and Baltic states. Russia has bold demands that are flat-out designed for the West to reject. This isn't last year's buildup. They have field hospitals, fuel bowsers, loads of ammunition. We should not discount the largest cyberattack in Ukraine's history that just occurred, too.

So one of two things are occurring. A) they are planning a military operation, or b) last year's bluff for leverage did not work because military intelligence pointed out the buildup was all teeth and no tail (aka you can't just push without supply lines and backup for your offensive).

And it's USA's false flag?

If you look at Russian polls, there's no enthusiasm for any type of war. If you look at US polls, there's no enthusiasm for any type of war. If you've been paying any attention to American politics, you'd understand that the GOP feels closer to Russia than Democrats, which is a far cry for any Republican who idolizes Reagan or at least used to.

Sanctions do not work; Putin has spent a long time essentially sanction-proofing the Russian economy. This has been the case for at least the last 7 years.

The biggest mistake here was the prospect of Ukraine and Georgia joining NATO. It angered Russia and created unrealistic expectations for Ukraine and Georgia. You can't enter NATO without the unanimous support of all 30 member countries. This really put Ukraine in an impossible position. You're not going to meet the criteria to join NATO, but you also just upset Russia without NATO protection.

Ukraine and Russia have been linked since what, the 9th century? The languages are very similar. However, it completely depends on what part of Ukraine you are looking at. It is worth noting that Crimea and Donbas are very different. Seizing Crimea boosted Putin's popularity because of course it did. Even though the annexation was illegally done and not recognized internationally, the reality is Crimea was a territory that pretty much every Russian thought was rightfully Russian. It was a long-standing territory that belonged to Russia up until the 1950s and why most Crimeans really wanted to become part of Russia.

Donbas is a completely different situation from Crimea. While Russia picked security over economic growth (and sanction proofing), Ukraine became more democratic and more friendly to the West. Ukraine gets richer and standards of living have gone up. This is not lost on Russians. Ukraine is heading towards joining NATO and losing the pro-Russian leader in 2014, it's moving faster, even doing joint military exercises with NATO. Moscow has used Donbas as a destabilizer for Kyiv. This creates a difficult situation for Ukraine to build a successful state and reach the milestones it needs to get into NATO. Putin also realizes that Ukrainians here will fight. Russia would win, no doubt, but they'd have to play an occupying force in an area that is bitterly hostile toward Russia. Russia could take Ukraine, but it cannot hold it.

This is not about Russia. This is about Putin and the demise of "Historical Russia" as they see it. This is about a bunch of old Soviets who genuinely believe the West is hostile and is denying Russia its place as a superpower by undermining their regime.

So, you have learned NOTHING from the USA's bullshit wars over our lives and last 60 years and more, hm?

Where are Saddam's "WMD"?
Why did a decent honourable man have to be murdered and his death still a cover up to this day? (Dr David Kelly)

See similar shit with the First "Western" Gulf War
And notice how these atrocities always occur when the US economy gets rocky about 2 to 3 years after a economic problem.

US has left Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan in ruins...and NONE of them are on the USA's borders.

the West real leaders are worst than the brutal but sensible ones in charge of Russia and China (and isn't THAT ironic that Putin and Pi are smarter by miles than their Western enemies?)
Ours are just Nazis with better smiles and a hypocritical, lying cloak of pretend "virtue"

You refuse to learn, but you will pay the price along with the rest of us, YOU are on the menu :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silverblade

So, you have learned NOTHING from the USA's bullshit wars over our lives and last 60 years and more, hm?

---

So the logic here is the country has lied before, so they're only capable of lying? Let's use that! Hey, the Soviet Union lied to their people and the world for decades, and Putin is a direct product of the Soviet system, so by SilverLogic (TM) he's lying now and cannot be trusted! Have you learned NOTHING from Russian bullshit over the last century, hm?

You really need to stop reading the crap news sites you visit that love conspiracies. If nothing else, you should recognize that conspiracy sites tend to lean far towards the right side of the political spectrum (mostly libertarians in the prepper crowd). Someone like yourself, a Thatcher-hater dependent on welfare and public health care, shouldn't be comfortable with some of the conclusions those fellows reach base on their beliefs. Or did you really believe that moderates were spouting "Let's Go Brandon" like you did a short time ago?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silverblade-T-E

so when is Russia really gonna invade Ukraine, hm?
last week, Friday, no it's next Wednesday! etc etc
*face palm* :banghead:

---

This is the dilemma faced by anyone advocating preventive action: if you act to prevent something from happening, and then it doesn't occur, was that because of your intervention or was that just you crying wolf?

IMNSHO, this is a smart play by the US. By getting in front of this, you undercut the credibility of Russia's pretexts for invasion, which strengthens the political will for an international response against Russia. If it prevents them from invading entirely, then so much the better.

If it delays then long enough for their tanks to get stuck in the spring mud (this is a thing in Russia, you can look it up), they either abandon the invasion or it's effectiveness is significantly compromised.

Quote:

---

And as usual, it's all really about geopolitics and greed, fuck all to do with peace, democracy or saving lives.

---

Regardless of what it's "all really about", a Russian invasion of Ukraine *will* destabilize a country that is embracing liberal, democratic principles. Even putting aside the lives that would be lost in an invasion/wat, preserving that kind of society (especially given the recent global trends toward authoritarianism) is reason enough to intervene.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silverblade-T-E

So, you have learned NOTHING from the USA's bullshit wars over our lives and last 60 years and more, hm?

Where are Saddam's "WMD"?
Why did a decent honourable man have to be murdered and his death still a cover up to this day? (Dr David Kelly)

See similar shit with the First "Western" Gulf War
And notice how these atrocities always occur when the US economy gets rocky about 2 to 3 years after a economic problem.

US has left Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan in ruins...and NONE of them are on the USA's borders.

the West real leaders are worst than the brutal but sensible ones in charge of Russia and China (and isn't THAT ironic that Putin and Pi are smarter by miles than their Western enemies?)
Ours are just Nazis with better smiles and a hypocritical, lying cloak of pretend "virtue"

You refuse to learn, but you will pay the price along with the rest of us, YOU are on the menu :(

---

WMD's in Iraq was a clear fabrication that everyone not making money off the lie or in Washington still believing the spirit of "bipartisanship" saw right through. They had no real evidence to support the claims they were making. However in this case, there is a ton of evidence to support what the US is saying. Private, commercial satellite companies are showing pictures of the Russian buildup on the border. Video footage is being taken. Even Putin isn't denying they are there. The lie they are using it is a training exercise. Because of course, in the largest country in the world the only place they can have military drills is also the same location that would be most internationally destabilizing. I'm sure it is just a complete unfortunate coincidence. Or it was all designed by the US.

I don't want war, but I also don't want some dictator just running roughshod over the rest of Europe. If there is no opposition to a Ukraine invasion, where is Putin's next target? A non-NATO country again? What's to say NATO doesn't push a plan to invite all these countries that Putin doesn't want to become NATO? He will have created the exact situation he wanted to avoid.

Dramadon

it's THEIR border, they can do WTF they want on their side
just as you know, USA holds enormous war drill near the Mexican border
Ukraine is on THEIR backyard, not the USA's or UKs

USA's war history proves it's a lying, mass murdering hypocritical monster even worse than the British Empire was.
Vietnam war = false flag, CIA terrorist bombings and Tonkin Gulf Incident lies nd that is par for the course
If "everyone knew WMD were lies" then why the fuck was that war let to occur, why do folk still deny Bush linked 9/11 with Saddam?

All those US wars and terrorism, oddly enough, whacked Soviet and now Russian allies
Russia and China know the USA is coming for them, USA has made that plain by its actions and attitude, and thus, the Russians and Chinese are going to EXTERMINATE America in return, it's population and the whole damn West if the USA does put it's toe over the line.
They have a very different outlook to the numb nuts in charge of the West and its media, they see the absolute ruin America leaves in its wake and thus will not turn the other cheek and be wiped out without returning the favour.


Explosion in Russian supporting Ukrainian region, outside offices of their militia commander...
USA intelligence claims "it was just a gas pipeline explosion!"
Riiiiight!

Shooting down of the airliner few years ago...funny how exact same model and same airline disappeared in the Indian Ocean, after it flew by Diego Garcia, USA secret base leased off the UK who stole it from the natives, and the Russians DON'T have a base anywhere near there
and the missile missed Putin's own aircraft by 15 minutes
and we STILL haven't found any major wreckage of the one that went down in the Indian Ocean...funny that, isn't it?
or the several airliners who went down in the Atlantic off the US Eastern seaboard some decades ago in very suspicious circumstances, hint: US missile tests

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silverblade-T-E

Russia and China know the USA is coming for them, USA has made that plain by its actions and attitude,

---

I don't think even you know exactly what you mean, specifically, by that.

The US and Russia (and/or China) are not geopolitical allies, and are certainly competitors in the economic space, but do you really and truly believe that the US (and who specifically in the US, btw? Military leadership? Civilian leaders?) intends to attack and destroy (how? massive civilian deaths? Regime change? Crippling economic actions?) Russia or China?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarbonius

I don't think even you know exactly what you mean, specifically, by that.

The US and Russia (and/or China) are not geopolitical allies, and are certainly competitors in the economic space, but do you really and truly believe that the US (and who specifically in the US, btw? Military leadership? Civilian leaders?) intends to attack and destroy (how? massive civilian deaths? Regime change? Crippling economic actions?) Russia or China?

---

Zarb

the USA and UK have been run by a shadow cabal for a long time, as over time those with power always seek to ruthlessly conserve that power ands set up such cabals in any society or even any system.
With the age and wealth/power of our nations that has gotten exacerbated, and NO it's not "conspiracy theory", it's how the Human Race actually works, we have tons of proof, see:
Ancient Rome, Medieval Italy split up into viciously competing city states whom the Church ensured never allied to threaten their power, to the bureaucracies of the Czars etc
The word "Byzantine" entered the lexicon for a damn good reason you know! :p

So, today, the USA/UK and thus lot of the West is manipulated from on high by various groups of gits, from University frats who've gone way too far, see the "Bullingdon Club"
to noble families, to banking dynasties, to groupings of socio-economics (NeoCons/NeoLiberals) etc
It's not homogenous, but they are nearly all actual sociopaths (and bring their children up to be so), many are drug addicts and lots are perverts (oh look! another Epstein associate has died in jail, who'd a thunk it?!)

Not having some part of the world under their control gnaws at them, they aren't sane, they want to rule the world at any cost to others
part of it is xenophobia, thinking THEY are superior hence they also are restarting Eugenics again in our countries
Many are descendants of the bastards who funded Hitler and got away with it

Davos etc are places where they can meet up and plot out their crap for the next few years

Look at Rupert Murdoch who's part of this, what a vile, ugly in spirit and flesh piece of shit, responsible for mega deaths by promoting racism and war, just like his dad!

another example as proof: 1929 Crash, a certain bank KNEW it was coming, didn't warn the Public, encouraged them to keep buying stocks etc...and when it all went to hell , hoovered those poor sods money up.

General Smedley Butler exposed the evil that was so-called "Democratic Free America", murdering millions around the globe for it's fucking corporations

But hey, keep believing in the BS nightmare if you want, as usual any one that tries to wake you up gets attacked
pillocks refused to listen in 1914, 1939 etc...this time however...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silverblade-T-E

Zarb

-- "shadow cabal"

-- "Ancient Rome, Medieval Italy"

-- "Bullingdon Club"

-- "NeoCons/NeoLiberals"

-- "nearly all actual sociopaths"

-- "they want to rule the world at any cost to others"

-- "they also are restarting Eugenics"

--"Many are descendants of the bastards who funded Hitler"

-- "Davos"

-- "Rupert Murdoch who's part of this"

-- "another example as proof: 1929 Crash, a certain bank KNEW it was coming"

-- "General Smedley Butler"

---

That's 12 separate threads to pull on, each of which could be its own discussion, and each of which would have to be backed up by at least some sort of resources to support your claim.

But you just throw them all out there, with no apparent links between them, and claim that is "proof" of the US's intent to destroy Russia and China. Hell, there wasn't even an attempt to make a coherent argument there; just a shotgun blast of whatever conspiracy theories were rattling through your brain at that moment.

Quote:

---

But hey, keep believing in the BS nightmare if you want, as usual any one that tries to wake you up gets attacked

---

I'm not attacking you. I'm saying that you are not making any logical arguments at all here. For all I know, all 12 of your assertions may be accurate, and you may be 100% correct that they all support what your argument about the US vs Russia/China.

But I'm not going to chase all of those down to see if all (or any) of those are true; and/or if they are true, if they actually do link together to support what you're claiming. I just don't have the time to do so.



This isn't me attacking you - this is me telling you that you are being incoherent. If you want me (or anyone) to take what you are saying at least somewhat seriously, then you need to put more effort into making yourself understandable. In this day and age, when supporting information is (should be) easy to find, and it is so straightforward to cite/link to, there is no excuse not to.


So no, you don't get to play the victim ("nobody listens to me!") here, because you chose (CHOSE) to present your case in the form of a scattershot array of random, unsupported wild assertions. Maybe you're Cassandra, or maybe you're Jerry Fletcher. Or maybe you just picked and ate the wrong wild mushrooms on your last picnic. From your posts (content AND style), nobody can tell.

But you've gotta work a bit harder on your communication here. (Pro tips: focus on one conspiracy theory per post, not 12; provide at least 3 links that kinda sorta support what you're saying, or at least provide some sort of context; drop the persecution complex).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silverblade-T-E

so when is Russia really gonna invade Ukraine, hm?
last week, Friday, no it's next Wednesday! etc etc
*face palm* :banghead:

---

Well, I guess the answer was "Monday".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarbonius

Well, I guess the answer was "Monday".

---

Those 2 regions are pro-RUSSIAN and have been constantly attacked by the actual fucking NAZI nutbags on the Ukrainian side, with civilians killed all the damn time
funny how the "NeoLiberal" Western propaganda overlooks that, isn't it?
UK troops teaching them how to conduct guerrilla warfare caught on camera cause the Ukrainians were so gung-ho they posted the pics!

Look at the geography, Crimea and Ukraine are absolutely essential to Russia's security, hence the agreements put in place when USSR fell that NATO would not move East
How would you feel if Western Canada went pro-Russian and began shelling Winnipeg?

Do you recall the US and UK were os arrogant and stupid they sent (or planned ot in UK's case) aircraft carriers into the Black Sea?
frikkin UK destroyer sailed around Crimean coast in range of the Russians artillery, FFS
Those sailors must have been shitting themselves because they knew how close they were ot getting sunk and provoking WW3

RUSSIA'S BACKYARD, NOT FUCKING OURS!

You may have missed the fact that China *allied* with Russia other week

You lot are as fucking mad and ignorant as the dumb bastards in 1914, looking forward to "thrashing the Hun!" or "Invading the poofy French!", or "Revenge for Franco-Prussian War defeat!"
Didn't turn out well for anyone but the worms and crows, that did...or, the bankers and arms makers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silverblade-T-E

Those 2 regions are pro-RUSSIAN and have been constantly attacked by the actual fucking NAZI nutbags on the Ukrainian side, with civilians killed all the damn time

---

EDIT - changing my response here.

You've moved the goalposts. You said this was an American false flag operation that would result in war (it's in the thread title).

Then you said that the predictions about when a Russian invasion would occur were crazy.

Now, you're saying that it's ok that the Russians invaded, and you're repeating the Russian propaganda claims regarding Ukraine almost word for word.


Silver, you're a colourful character with a tendency toward conspiracy theories, but I think you've gone a bit far on this one.


Check.

Your.

Sources.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silverblade

Those 2 regions are pro-RUSSIAN....

---

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...um_1991_No.png

The map shows the percentage of people who voted "no" to independence from Russia back in 1991. Crimea? Yes, very Russian, has the home port of the Black Sea fleet, yadda yadda. Donetsk and Luhansk, which is where Russian "peacekeeping" forces just went? Not so much. Skipping the rest of the post because it looks like it was lifted straight from Russia Today. (My Russian friend used to get some of her "back home" news from RT, until I started pointing out where it would flat-out lie to make Putin look good. Now she sticks with BBC World.)

Oh, oops! Forgot: link for BBC article about the slow, steady invasion: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60468237

Germany just pulled the plug on the pipeline, and every other Western nation is lining up to bury Russia economically, so hope it was worth it, Vlad.

Russia has a long list of <name> the <adjective> rulers. Like Ivan the Terrible, Catherine the Great. Can we call Putin, Vlad the Mad?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delores Mulva

Oh, oops! Forgot: link for BBC article about the slow, steady invasion: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60468237

Germany just pulled the plug on the pipeline, and every other Western nation is lining up to bury Russia economically, so hope it was worth it, Vlad.

---

You REALLY don't get it, do you?
this was all about US bullying as usual, to stop Nordstream2, to weaken Russia AND Germany/Europe, and to control the resources of Ukraine
and to prove they still have "power" and maybe even get a nice war going to take Russia over...

Germany is now utterly fucked as their energy costs will triple in the end, guess what that does to their economy?
Then Europe's economy....
Oh and yes, to public safety, national security and all that stuff when folk go absolutely mental when hyperinflation hits and breaks the logistics system

and those massive price hikes will rebound onto US and Canadian consumers...oh and won't you love hyperinflation?

All while Trudeau actually has become a tyrant but you support his version of it, sigh



So long, and thanks for the fish!

/shrug, I'm out.

You tried. Besides, you need to take time to arm yourself against the tyrant Trudeau and prepare for hyperinflation. No time to post!

Well the far right is falling in line and believes that Russia is the good guy in all of this. Between the former president praising Putin and Tucker Carlson repeating Russian propaganda, Republicans are going all in on Russia. I think it’s a combination of the right automatically taking whatever side President Biden is on and how deeply entrenched Russian influence has on the conservative media echo chamber. Regardless President Regan wouldn’t even recognize his own party today.

<A Ukrainian has entered the chat>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silke

Well the far right is falling in line and believes that Russia is the good guy in all of this. Between the former president praising Putin and Tucker Carlson repeating Russian propaganda, Republicans are going all in on Russia. I think it’s a combination of the right automatically taking whatever side President Biden is on and how deeply entrenched Russian influence has on the conservative media echo chamber. Regardless President Regan wouldn’t even recognize his own party today.

---

Ronnie Raygun would be spinning in his grave to see the GOP so blatantly kissing a Russian president's ass.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silke

Well the far right is falling in line and believes that Russia is the good guy in all of this. Between the former president praising Putin and Tucker Carlson repeating Russian propaganda, Republicans are going all in on Russia. I think it’s a combination of the right automatically taking whatever side President Biden is on and how deeply entrenched Russian influence has on the conservative media echo chamber. Regardless President Regan wouldn’t even recognize his own party today.

---

Thanks to horseshoe theory the far left is gobbling Putin's cock as much as the right is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ninetoes

Thanks to horseshoe theory the far left is gobbling Putin's cock as much as the right is.

---

I must have missed all the tweets from members of the far left praising Putin's genius or generally being sympathetic to Russia.

Tankie Twitter is chock full of folks defending Putin, saying the US is a provacetuer and the ukrainians are Nazis so its ok for Putin to do it. Not just tankie twitter, good chunk of folks who voted for Bernie or third party too.

Again its the FAR left, leftists, moderates and centrists are all Fuck Putin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delores Mulva

Oh, oops! Forgot: link for BBC article about the slow, steady invasion: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60468237

Germany just pulled the plug on the pipeline, and every other Western nation is lining up to bury Russia economically, so hope it was worth it, Vlad.

---

Did they? I have to say I'm sort of surprised. I guess we'll see when next winter comes, if the issue is still ongoing then. But if they did then obviously Putin should have waited a little longer so Europe could get properly reliant on the pipeline, rather than doing something before Europe had changed their fuel economy around it. Wonder if thats a relatively rare miscalculation on his part, or something about the apparent prognosis for the US midterms affects his planning? I'm not sure why it would, but...

Or maybe he just has alternate plans to just sell the gas to China instead and thus doesnt care about the pipeline/sanctions so much anymore? Anyone know how easy it would be to switch to China, in terms of existing infrastructure or time to create it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ninetoes

Tankie Twitter is chock full of folks defending Putin, saying the US is a provacetuer and the ukrainians are Nazis so its ok for Putin to do it. Not just tankie twitter, good chunk of folks who voted for Bernie or third party too.

Again its the FAR left, leftists, moderates and centrists are all Fuck Putin

---

I only heard the term “tankie” for the first time a few weeks ago so I get the reference.

I won’t defend the FAR left because I think they’re pretty out there. But, and I’ve said this before, they’re much easier to ignore. They’re nowhere near as organized and loud as the far right.

Anyway, Ninetoes, you’re Ukrainian? Thoughts and insights?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delores Mulva

You tried. Besides, you need to take time to arm yourself against the tyrant Trudeau and prepare for hyperinflation. No time to post!

---

But what do I do when the tyrant gives up his power? Do I still have to arm myself? Can I arm myself against inflation? Can I arm a bear?

Can bears fight inflation?

(also: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...ergencies-act/ )

EDIT - for further context: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-emergencies-act-nine-days-that-didnt-really-shake-the-world-all/

Spoiler for context:

But things were taken to another level after the police went in – the largest such operation in Canadian history, the most closely observed (hundreds of cellphone cameras documenting every move) and by all reasonable accounts one of the most restrained in its use of force.

In two days of close-quarters engagement, after literally hundreds of separate encounters between cops and protesters, the list of controversial incidents amounts to these: two people fell near a police horse as it went by; a guy got kneed in the back a couple of times as a police officer tried to subdue him; a few people got pepper-sprayed.

For anyone with any experience of even routine crowd-control operations, let alone one tasked with clearing out a deeply entrenched group of half-crazed anti-vaxxers, this was an almost miraculously clean rap sheet. Ground through the propaganda mills of the American right (and its Canadian subsidiaries), however, it emerged as Tiananmen, Hitler’s Germany and Guernica rolled up into one.

But it was the decision that preceded the police operation, the federal government’s invocation of the Emergencies Act, that excited the most controversy.

...

One part of the operation that seems unambiguously to have required the Emergencies Act: putting all those officers from police forces across the country under one command, without having to go through the formalities of swearing them all in, a task that apparently would have taken days.

But suppose the critics are right: The police had all the powers they needed but didn’t use them. That, surely, is the point: They didn’t use them. For three solid weeks. They didn’t use the powers they had under the authority of the City of Ottawa. They didn’t use the powers they had under the authority of the Province of Ontario. Perhaps the point of invoking the federal Emergencies Act was not the emergencies part, but the federal part.

...

At any rate, the argument that the police already had all the “new” powers granted them under the act is hard to square with the opposition’s other main line of attack: that by invoking the act the government had opened a dark and repressive new chapter in the country’s history; that martial law had been imposed; that Parliamentary democracy had been replaced by an authoritarian dictatorship to rival China’s.

This was just remarkably silly – and looks even sillier now that the emergency is officially over. It was only declared on Feb. 14. To stay in effect beyond seven days required the support of a majority of MPs in a Parliament in which the government holds a minority. Even had it remained in effect after that, it would have expired automatically in 30 days – sooner, still, if a majority of MPs had voted to revoke it, as they could have at any time before then. The whole thing was subject to the Charter and is already facing two separate court challenges.

There’s no doubt that the powers police had at their command for the nine days the emergency was in effect were extraordinary. The potential for abuse was obvious. Actual instances of abuse, however, were hard to come by.

TL;DR - country whose motto is "peace, order, and good government" restores peace and order through good government.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silverblade-T-E

so when is Russia really gonna invade Ukraine, hm?

---

Right now, by its own admission.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ninetoes

Tankie Twitter is chock full of folks defending Putin, saying the US is a provacetuer and the ukrainians are Nazis so its ok for Putin to do it. Not just tankie twitter, good chunk of folks who voted for Bernie or third party too.

Again its the FAR left, leftists, moderates and centrists are all Fuck Putin

---

To be clear, I really don't give a shit what some rando whack job suffering from withdrawal paranoid delusions says on Twitter. I consider the relevant far left to be people like AOC and Bernie or media personalities like Thom Hartman. None of those folks are praising Putin. There are some on the far right that most certainly are in full support Putin mode, some in government. The fact that people like Tucker even exist and still has a large following is terrifying.

To be fair, though, if I had to place Silverblade on the scale I would place him on the far left and he seems to more pro-Putin here than anything else so there is that.

First time I've seen "tankie" used outside of Reddit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarbonius

But what do I do when the tyrant gives up his power?

---

Don't you care about imaginary people from Chilliwack? WON'T SOMEONE CARE ABOUT THE IMAGINARY PEOPLE FROM CHILLIWACK?!?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PPatty

Right now, by its own admission.

---

Emphasis on "right now", as the invasion has started. Troops crossing the border from Russia, Crimea, and Belarus. If they're just heading to the area with the internal fighting to "peacekeep", they're sure taking the scenic route.

BBC live feed: https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60454795
CNN live feed: https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news...2726026b5bde2a

"It's a false flag against the Nazis that are killing people in Eastern Ukraine"

Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces -Ukrainian official

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...al-2022-02-24/

People think that Russia is headed by evil geniuses. This war is a foolish idea for Russia. It's a more foolish idea for us, and it's sad that Ukraine is going to be the subject of it. Russia is beginning its own version of Iraq, and it has nothing of value to gain unless Ukraine has been secretly developing Metal Gear. I strongly doubt that.

We really don't need to do anything. Nothing. The US doesn't need to do anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Star-Demon

We really don't need to do anything. Nothing.

---

something something evil to triumph something something good men to do nothing.


...Anyway.



The US does not "need" to do anything. Nobody "needs" to do anything. But purely from a self-interest / utilitarian standpoint, it would be fucking idiotic to do nothing.


I mean, unless you think war and instability in Europe and Asia due to a militarily aggressive Russia would be good for the American economy (or that of any 1st world country)? (Narrator: it would not)

The US cannot stop Russia from engaging itself in prolonged occupations and insurgencies just because it feels butthurt in a ForeverWar. We most certainly cannot afford a ForeverWar against Russia or China.

Russia is fighting over nothing. This is a complete waste of their resources, a complete crash of their political capital, and their selectorate are already sweating spinal fluid because they know an invasion will have global consequences. Why waste our own?

You want a war? Go fight it yourself - forever. My generation fought two generation's-long wars and now we're fucking tired and aging and broke with nothing to fucking show for it. This is exactly what Russia is getting itself into right now.

War is horrible. If the USA was in better shape, I'd advocate for intervention, and I'd likely be criticized for forwarding american self-righteousness in its imagined role as World Police. After Iraq and Afghanistan and the 2010s and now the horrific 2020's, I'm saying we don't have much more blundering left in us. It's obvious we can't do this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Star-Demon

The US cannot stop Russia from engaging itself in prolonged occupations and insurgencies just because it feels butthurt in a ForeverWar. We most certainly cannot afford a ForeverWar against Russia or China.

---

You are assuming direct military conflict is the only option. It is not. It is not even a good option.

But there is a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooot of room between "nothing" and "direct military conflict".


Also, I *am* your generation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarbonius

You are assuming direct military conflict is the only option. It is not. It is not even a good option.

But there is a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooot of room between "nothing" and "direct military conflict".


Also, I *am* your generation.

---

kick Russia out of SWIFT as a first move, and shore up Europes natural gas - destroy the oligarchs wealth and Russia's leverage, the oligarchs will make him stop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silverblade-T-E

so when is Russia really gonna invade Ukraine, hm?
last week, Friday, no it's next Wednesday! etc etc
*face palm* :banghead:


Is anyone listening?

---

Not to you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ninetoes

kick Russia out of SWIFT as a first move, and shore up Europes natural gas - destroy the oligarchs wealth and Russia's leverage, the oligarchs will make him stop.

---

That's a tough one. Kicking Russia out of SWITF is a double edge sword. If the goal is to make the citizens revolt and hurt the local economies and banks, then it might work, but that can be accomplished with regular sanctions.

The Russian government has been preparing for being cut off from SWITF since 2014 when the US proposed doing so back in 2014 when Russia invaded Crimea. Part of the issue is Russian banks and foreign firms would just migrate to SPFS (Russian alternative to SWIFT -- while not as good, it still would work). SPFS would then likely receive more funding since there would be a larger market. Or Russia could use another system completely, say developed by China, which is bad for us too. Doing so would also hinder parts of the Terrorist Finance Tracking Program under SWIFT since it's used to see financial communication. As it stands right now, it's not really politized, either.

Another downside of that is more foreign firms migrate elsewhere and that has the potential to erode western power, specifically the US dollar. Iran, China, North Korea, etc. would still all trade with Russia with outside means. People may argue that it has precedence with Iran, but it's hard to compare Russia to Iran. I don't think banning Russia from SWIFT would have the same result as it did with Iran (e.g., Iran rejoined under the JCPOA years later).

I'd argue most sanctions are pretty toothless at this point with Russia. The other things you mentioned are occurring now and certain sanctions and freezing assets and such will bite for sure.

edit: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/26/here...sanctions.html

Russia's space chief responds to new sanctions by suggesting that the ISS would no longer be prevented from crashing into the US or Europe

So, uh...

I was just scrolling through reddit in the worldnews section, and... well, let's just say that I don't see how this ends well for Putin.

I mean, other countries are closing their airspace to Russia, most (all now?) of the EU is on-board with booting Russia from SWIFT, France is seizing Russian ships, sporting events in or involving Russia are being cancelled... Even Russian MPs are openly condemning the war. And now Germany is openly selling anti-tank weaponry and missiles to Ukraine, too?

How much rope does Putin have here? At this rate, I think we see the exit of Russia from Ukraine by the end of the week, and the exit of Putin from Russia shortly thereafter (or perhaps before?).

I think Vlad the Mad underestimated the will of the people in Ukraine, I think he really expected them to fold in a day or two.

Yep, props to the Ukrainians (military AND civilian) - they're tough as nails and loaded for bear (see what I did there?).

I think Putin so underestimated the international response, both in scale and in speed. This has moved very, very quickly. Certainly faster than the Russian troops on the ground.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FilanFyretracker

I think Vlad the Mad underestimated the will of the people in Ukraine, I think he really expected them to fold in a day or two.

---

Yes! Vlad the Mad! I knew it!

Take twitter for what it's worth, but this thing is not going well for Russia. I keep reading accounts of serious supply issues for the Russian military. Ukraine has been remarkably effective at attacking these supply routes. Almost like they know where they are and where they are going....hmmmmm.

At any rate, I really wish someone over there would start spray painting "Wolverines" on some of the wrecked equipment I keep seeing.

I think that President Biden had a lot to do with this too. He completely opened up our intelligence to Ukraine and to the world. He told us, step by step, what Russia was doing and what they were planning next. So when Putin tried to fabricate an excuse to invade, the whole world knew it was bullshit and we had the receipts to prove it.

This isn’t over by a long shot and I’m terrified of what the people of Ukraine and Kiev are going through but it’s amazing to see them stand up for their country. And I think that was a major miscalculation of Putin’s. Everyone knew there was a very pro-Russian element in Ukraine (particularly the east) but it seems he underestimated the numbers of anti-Russia folk in the rest of the country.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silke

I think that President Biden had a lot to do with this too. He completely opened up our intelligence to Ukraine and to the world. He told us, step by step, what Russia was doing and what they were planning next. So when Putin tried to fabricate an excuse to invade, the whole world knew it was bullshit and we had the receipts to prove it.

---

100% this. I don't think people understand how helpful this has been. Over the past few months (and longer), US intelligence had tried to convince NATO and even Ukraine to mobilize earlier. It was amazing to see US and British intel decide to release information publicly to deter false flags from Russia (which Russia was caught red-handed on several occasions). This type of intel sharing is not normal, and it was spot on each and every time.

Goes to show how incredible military intelligence can be when your President listens and isn't discrediting your own agencies at every turn.

Good for Ukranians!

I LOVE this story about them telling Russians to go fuck themselves lol.

https://www.politico.eu/article/go-f...r-ship-killed/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarbonius

So, uh...

I was just scrolling through reddit in the worldnews section, and... well, let's just say that I don't see how this ends well for Putin.

I mean, other countries are closing their airspace to Russia, most (all now?) of the EU is on-board with booting Russia from SWIFT, France is seizing Russian ships, sporting events in or involving Russia are being cancelled... Even Russian MPs are openly condemning the war. And now Germany is openly selling anti-tank weaponry and missiles to Ukraine, too?

How much rope does Putin have here? At this rate, I think we see the exit of Russia from Ukraine by the end of the week, and the exit of Putin from Russia shortly thereafter (or perhaps before?).

---

Supposedly Russian troops are massing on the Belarus/Poland border so who knows what he is thinking anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarbonius

Yep, props to the Ukrainians (military AND civilian) - they're tough as nails and loaded for bear (see what I did there?).

I think Putin so underestimated the international response, both in scale and in speed. This has moved very, very quickly. Certainly faster than the Russian troops on the ground.

---

The logistical nightmare we are seeing definitely shows they didn't expect this to take any time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silke

Anyway, Ninetoes, you’re Ukrainian? Thoughts and insights?

---

Yup, my grandfather came from Odessa via Kyiv. Grew up listening to stories of the old country. Obviously I am taking this personally and sincerely hope the Russian invaders plant an entire field of sunflower. It's just another example of Russian's irrational hatred of Ukrainians. Putin has vastly underestimated the ukrainian peoples resolve and determination to not only endure but emerge victorious. His reported actions on the Belarus/Poland borger and threats to Finland, Sweden et al just show he has ambitions far beyond Ukraine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ninetoes

Yup, my grandfather came from Odessa via Kyiv. Grew up listening to stories of the old country. Obviously I am taking this personally and sincerely hope the Russian invaders plant an entire field of sunflower. It's just another example of Russian's irrational hatred of Ukrainians. Putin has vastly underestimated the ukrainian peoples resolve and determination to not only endure but emerge victorious. His reported actions on the Belarus/Poland borger and threats to Finland, Sweden et al just show he has ambitions far beyond Ukraine.

---

Honestly, I think he has completely lost it. Like, certifiable. At any rate, it's pretty clear that the only reason Russia still exists right now is because they have nukes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dramadon

Honestly, I think he has completely lost it. Like, certifiable. At any rate, it's pretty clear that the only reason Russia still exists right now is because they have nukes.

---

Nukes are basically the only thing that stopped this from being WW3 already. The worry is what happens if he attacks an Article 5 nation and they call it up, Does Putin push the button and go global. Has he gone THAT far off the deep end to risk global thermonuclear war.

Well, this isn't good. I really hope we or one of our allies has someone who can contact someone in his inner circle. They need to end this guy. He's completely lost it. He's backed himself into a corner and I fully believe he would rather end civilization than to admit he made a mistake.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-uk...e5a2f936725550

Radioactive waste disposal site near Kyiv hit by airstrike, Ukraine officials say

A Team Of American And British Special Forces Veterans Are Preparing To Join Ukraine’s Fight Against Russia

https://news.yahoo.com/team-american...172804995.html

Quote:

---

Belarus is getting ready to deploy troops to help Russia with its invasion of Ukraine, a U.S. official told reporters on Sunday evening.

---

https://theweek.com/russo-ukrainian-...ion-of-ukraine

Hope they realize it's a bad move.

Russians are scrambling to withdraw US dollars at ATMs as the ruble hits a record low on sweeping Western sanctions

Quote:

---

• The Russian ruble plunged nearly 30% against the US dollar on Monday to a record low.
• Russians are scrambling foreign currencies and cash at ATMs in the country.
• Western allies have said they will slap restrictive measures on Russia's international reserves.

Russians are standing in long lines to withdraw foreign currencies from ATMs as Western sanctions send the ruble to a record low against the US dollar.

On Monday, the Russian ruble tumbled nearly 30% against the greenback, dropping to as low as 119 against the dollar, according to Reuters.

The plunge came after the European Commission said on Saturday that Western allies will slap restrictive measures on the Russian Central Bank's international reserves worth $630 billion. The measures will "paralyze the assets of Russia's central bank," "freeze its transactions," and "make it impossible for the Central bank to liquidate its assets," EC President Ursula von der Leyen wrote in a tweet.

Western countries have intensified their economic isolation of Russia, including the removal of selected banks from the SWIFT banking system.

The moves have spooked many Russians, who are withdrawing US dollars at more than a 30% premium over the market's close on Friday, according to Bloomberg.

"I've stood in lines for an hour, but foreign currency is gone everywhere, just rubles," Vladimir, a 28-year-old programmer, told Bloomberg. He declined to give his last name.

Russians also fear their bank cards may stop functioning and that banks might limit cash withdrawals, Reuters reported. "Since Thursday, everyone has been running from ATM to ATM to get cash. Some are lucky, others not so much," one St. Petersburg resident told the outlet.

Russia's central bank is calling for calm, saying in a Sunday statement it has "the necessary resources and tools to maintain financial stability and ensure the operational continuity of the financial sector."

Major state-owned Russian bank Sberbank said in a press release on Friday that it was operating as normal, and that customers will continue to have access to their funds and be able to exchange them into foreign currencies.

However, the European Central Bank said on Monday that Sberbank Europe — a fully owned subsidiary of Sberbank Russia — is "failing or likely to fail" alongside its Croatian and Slovenian units due to significant deposit outflows. "This led to a deterioration of its liquidity position," the ECB said in the statement.

The ruble is likely to continue coming under pressure.

"The most important thing is that the West is freezing the Central Bank's reserves," former Russian prime minister Mikhail Kasyanov wrote on Twitter, per a Reuters translation. "There is nothing to support the ruble with. They will turn on the printing press. Hyperinflation and catastrophe for the economy are not far away."

Sberbank did not immediately respond to Insider's request for comment.

---

I was not surprised to see Putin's Russia get the support of the Trumpublicans. Putin after all is an Old Rich White Christian Guy with a track record of hating on the LGBTQ community and people of the wrong skin color.
Although Putin is correct about the high influence of Neo-Nazi's within the Ukrainian government. And is correct about the systematic oppression of the Native-Russian population is the eastern Ukrainian provinces, not just the way they forbid the use of the Russian language but also the many people that got killed there in the last 4 years.
I still think someone should slip some Polonium in Putin's tea fast, because this old demented man is starting to go off rails, it is not noticeable when compared to a Trump, but it is crazy and deadly.


And this is an interesting point of view: https://youtu.be/If61baWF4GE

The ruble thing is a major headache for my Russian friend. She's had a strained relationship with her mother for most of her life, hiding all sorts of things from her to keep her mom from tearing her down. Mom's retired and on a fixed pension (in rubles) in Moscow, and the economic sanctions will likely destroy her financially. I've told the friend that she should consider bringing her mother to live with her in the past - doesn't have to worry about Mom being all alone, gets free daycare/cleaning/cooking (things friend can't do because of long work hours) - but she's terrified of all the critiques she will get if her mother sees how she lives. She also wouldn't be able to get away from her mom if it's too much, because her mom doesn't speak English and would be reliant on her for a lot of day-to-day things. But if her mom is about to go in the poorhouse from this, she may have no other option.

Oh, and I found out what may have started this thread. Edward Snowden is doing a lot of backtracking on Twitter after stating, before things started, that the whole Ukraine thing was a false flag war, etc. So maybe that's where Silverblade got it from in the first place. I hope he's read Snowden's retractions and admissions that he was 100% wrong.

This is blowing up in Putin's face so hard it's astonishing.

And now everyone's taking all their shit.

Good.

They can't even get the previously prepared press stories correct:

A Russian state news outlet announced that Ukraine had been defeated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delores Mulva

They can't even get the previously prepared press stories correct:

A Russian state news outlet announced that Ukraine had been defeated.

---

Mission Accomplished?

"Eta gege"?

Americans are boycotting vodka — but only 1% of what's drunk in the US is Russian

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ackar

Americans are boycotting vodka — but only 1% of what's drunk in the US is Russian

---

Every little bit helps.

Putin is on track to turn Russia into North Korea at this point.

https://www.reuters.com/business/bp-...ia-2022-02-27/

It’s Vice…. So…. Ummm …. Yeah…. Gonna post it anyway though:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3ng...aine-attention

The Right seems lost and disoriented at the moment. They’re flailing around trying to blame President Biden for the invasion while, simultaneously, back peddling from their former praise and support of Putin. And there’s still a sizable chunk of them who want Putin to win just to stick it to the, and I’ll use their term, globohomos.

A number of people have also noticed that a lot of social media promoting these truckers, anti vaccination measures, anti Canada sentiments all dried up the second Putin started to shut down things like Twitter in Russia. Almost as if a lot of this misinformation and culture war horseshit was being spread by people inside Russia in an attempt to divide us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ackar

Americans are boycotting vodka — but only 1% of what's drunk in the US is Russian

---

I have a question about this: Hasn't the stuff on store shelves already been purchased by distributors in the US, thus the money already being in Russian hands? I honestly don't know how that works, just the way I thought it worked. I'm not a vodka drinker, just every so often in a cocktail, but when I buy it for my wife I buy Tito's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silke

The Right seems lost and disoriented at the moment. They’re flailing around trying to blame President Biden for the invasion while, simultaneously, back peddling from their former praise and support of Putin. And there’s still a sizable chunk of them who want Putin to win just to stick it to the, and I’ll use their term, globohomos.

---

Wait until you see the entire "Putin is invading Ukraine to 'find hunter Biden's laptop' to prove that Biden was elected fraudulently" line.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture...ussia-1313656/

While that's pretty far right, Don Jr is ranting along a similar line (Hunter's fault).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bonlainy

I have a question about this: Hasn't the stuff on store shelves already been purchased by distributors in the US, thus the money already being in Russian hands? I honestly don't know how that works, just the way I thought it worked. I'm not a vodka drinker, just every so often in a cocktail, but when I buy it for my wife I buy Tito's.

---

It doesn't hurt financially, but it's symbolic to show solidarity with Ukraine.

It gets twisted though because people are generally dumping anything that looks Russian (e.g., Smirnoff is owned by the British, not Russians).

Side note, the people I know that live in Russia drink Tito's too (lol).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silke

A number of people have also noticed that a lot of social media promoting these truckers, anti vaccination measures, anti Canada sentiments all dried up the second Putin started to shut down things like Twitter in Russia. Almost as if a lot of this misinformation and culture war horseshit was being spread by people inside Russia in an attempt to divide us.

---

If only the right wing types who believed this crap in the first place could connect the dots on that. Instead it will just be another conspiracy - "right wing voices being silenced by evil media bans en masse" - and nothing will change.

So the Belarus security council meeting was shown briefly on Belarusian national TV, and this was shown:

Link to screenshot.

It's a map of the invasion, showing troop movements in broad strokes. The circled area? It shows an invasion of Moldova - specifically, the Transnistria region which is trying to break away from Moldova and rejoin Russia - from the Ukraine. Oops. Not supposed to show phase two until phase one is complete!

Russia’s ‘Vacuum Bombs’ Could Unleash Hell on Ukrainian Civilians, and Amount to a War Crime

Quote:

---

• One of Russia’s most deadly and controversial land weapons is the TOS-1A heavy flamethrower.
• It uses rockets with thermobaric weapons to destroy entrenched enemy troops.
• Used in Ukraine’s cities, the weapons would do massive damage to military and civilian targets alike, including ordinary people taking shelter from the fighting.

As Russia’s troops grow increasingly bogged down in their invasion of Ukraine, observers are concerned the Russian military could unleash one of its most devastating non-nuclear weapons in civilian areas: the TOS-1A heavy flamethrower system. Originally designed to destroy fortified NATO targets, the TOS-1A is designed to create shattering waves of searing heat and overpressure, killing enemy troops inside bunkers and other reinforced targets.

The Russian Ground Forces have, until Monday, refrained from using heavy artillery in Ukraine’s urban areas. This has been an impediment to typical Russian combat operations, as Moscow’s military doctrine usually prescribes a liberal amount of artillery to batter the enemy before a ground assault. Although there have been numerous sightings of heavy Russian artillery pieces rolling into Ukraine—and reports that Moscow has already used thermobaric weapons against civilians—there have been no official confirmations yet.

All of that may be about to change. Artillery bombardments of Ukrainian cities and towns are becoming increasingly common, with evidence of BM-30 Smerch 300-millimeter rockets, Grad-P 122-millimeter rockets, and other salvo-fired rocket systems in active use. The worst of all, however, is the TOS-1A. As the weapon’s state-owned exporter states in its marketing materials: “I will create hell for the enemy.” No lie detected.

The TOS-1A is a weapon without equivalents in Western armies. TOS-1A and weapons like it are called “thermobaric” due to their use of extreme heat and pressure to incapacitate or kill. The Soviet Union first developed the TOS-1A in the 1970s as a weapon to fulfill the role of a flamethrower, destroying enemy troops in bunkers. At the time, most armies were shifting away from the traditional role of a flame-spurting flamethrower, but there was still a need for a weapon that could somehow reach through the narrow firing ports of a bunker or fighting position to neutralize the troops inside.

The original vehicle, TOS-1, was designed to carry 30 rockets with a 220-millimeter diameter. Each rocket was packed with inert—but flammable—metal particles, dispersed in a cloud-like pattern at the target. Ideally, the airborne metallic particles filter into hard-to-reach places through firing ports in a bunker, crew hatches in armored vehicles, and cave entrances. The rocket then detonates the cloud, creating a deadly fireball.

The explosion also has a powerful secondary effect: the generation of powerful positive, then negative, pressure waves. The quick succession of positive and negative pressure waves is why some call thermobaric weapons “vacuum bombs.” The pressure differential has a devastating effect on buildings, structures, and the human body—particularly the lungs. The U.S. Air Force’s Mother of All Bombs (MOAB), the world’s largest conventional bomb, similarly kills through overpressure, and in 2017 was dropped on an ISIS cave complex in Afghanistan.

The modern version of TOS-1 is TOS-1A, also known as Solntsepek (Sun). The weapon still uses 220-millimeter rockets, but only carries 24 at a time. According to Rosoboronexport, the state company that markets and coordinates international arms sales, TOS-1A can launch its rockets just 90 seconds after coming to a full stop. It can fire all 24 rockets in six seconds, and a single vehicle can savage 40,000 square meters, the equivalent of almost ten acres. In addition to the Russian Ground Forces, armies in Algeria, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Iraq, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Saudi Arabia, and Syria also operate TOS-1As.

Here’s a video that Russia’s Ministry of Defense uploaded to YouTube in 2019, showing the loading and firing of TOS-1As during an exercise:

TOS-1A’s effects against soldiers are horrifying enough, but against civilians it has the potential for mass slaughter. The dangers to unprotected civilians are obvious, but it can also damage (or even collapse) non-military buildings, killing or injuring those taking shelter inside.

Two human rights organizations—London’s Amnesty International and New York City’s Human Rights Watch—have both claimed that Russia “appeared to have used widely banned cluster munitions, with Amnesty accusing them of attacking a preschool in northeastern Ukraine while civilians took shelter inside,” according to a February 28 report from Reuters, but those claims have not yet been verified.

TOS-1A will devastate civilian populations in Ukraine if Russia uses it against them. Already, Russian rockets are raining down in urban areas in Kharkiv, a city in the eastern part of the country that has managed to hold out against Russian forces despite overwhelming odds. If Putin grows desperate, he might order his military to deploy TOS-1A and similar rocket systems as terror weapons in an attempt to break Ukraine’s morale.

While such actions might have their intended effect, it would also broadly be considered a war crime, and land Putin and his administration in even deeper international trouble than it’s in now.

---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS9d6h8ZwPU

https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/s...56686548013062

Interesting perspective. But I think it started even earlier with tryouts like the Brexit and Scottish independence referendum

tbh I dont think they expected the success they got though, The fact that Fox News would just gobble that shit up and mainline it to the masses. I mean Tucker may as well be on a Kremlin backed station the way he praises Putin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silverblade-T-E

Those 2 regions are pro-RUSSIAN and have been constantly attacked by the actual fucking NAZI nutbags on the Ukrainian side, with civilians killed all the damn time
funny how the "NeoLiberal" Western propaganda overlooks that, isn't it?
UK troops teaching them how to conduct guerrilla warfare caught on camera cause the Ukrainians were so gung-ho they posted the pics!

Look at the geography, Crimea and Ukraine are absolutely essential to Russia's security, hence the agreements put in place when USSR fell that NATO would not move East

---

It's time for a Strength (of Character) check, Silverblade: None of the arguments you put forward here hold up, given Russia's subsequent invasion of the entirety of Ukraine.

None of them.

And you have been completely silent since then.


I'm hoping you roll a natural 20 here, not a 1.


(I'm even being nice and ignoring the terms of Ukraine's agreement to surrender its nuclear weapons to Russia (1994 Budapest Memorandum), in exchange for "security assurances against threats or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan.")

Not going to lie - as a 2nd generation Ukrainian this has been incredibly stressful. Not just because of the ongoing invasion - but the mischaracterization of the Ukrainian people. I have seen folks that I considered friends spouting Putin propaganda, calling my people Nazis, and generally misunderstanding and mischaracterizing how much influence Azov really has.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarbonius

It's time for a Strength (of Character) check, Silverblade

---

It's more attention grabbing when the Gnome just screams "I WAS RIGHT SAY IT SAY IT SAY IT"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PPatty

It's more attention grabbing when the Gnome just screams "I WAS RIGHT SAY IT SAY IT SAY IT"

---

Which I hear in Sam Kinison's voice, despite having talked to the gnome before.

China asked Russia to delay invasion until after Olympics, Western intel shows

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ninetoes

Not going to lie - as a 2nd generation Ukrainian this has been incredibly stressful. Not just because of the ongoing invasion - but the mischaracterization of the Ukrainian people. I have seen folks that I considered friends spouting Putin propaganda, calling my people Nazis, and generally misunderstanding and mischaracterizing how much influence Azov really has.

---

That is because for the last several decades people are taught that there is only black and white, there are only 2 sides and the moment you critique even a small aspect of one side, you must be for the other side.

The Reports from the UN, from Human Rights watch or from Amnesty International over the last 6 years in regard to the situation in the eastern provinces of the Ukraine are no longer to be considered as a person living in a western nation, because you are supposed to be anti-Russia, because being anti-Putin simply is not enough anymore. And every little thing that might tarnish your own side should be ignored and forgotten.

I was joking to friends that maybe Russia should just join NATO themselves but apparently this is something that various parties have floated for decades.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Branaman Starbinder

And this is an interesting point of view: https://youtu.be/If61baWF4GE

---

That was an interesting video. Thank you for sharing.

Apparently Russia has decided that shelling a nuclear plant is a big brain idea.
https://www.newsweek.com/russians-re...-1684750?amp=1

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FilanFyretracker

Apparently Russia has decided that shelling a nuclear plant is a big brain idea.
https://www.newsweek.com/russians-re...-1684750?amp=1

---

They're already in this deep, why not go all the way? Until NATO intervenes militarily, what's the downside of escalation at this point for Russia?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PPatty

They're already in this deep, why not go all the way? Until NATO intervenes militarily, what's the downside of escalation at this point for Russia?

---

I was going to respond in detail, but care to elaborate on what you mean by "going all the way" and "what's the downside of escalation?" I mean after attacking nuclear facilities and using banned weapons against civilians and other various war crimes... are you talking like nuking cities at this point?

On the other point, there's plenty NATO and the rest of the world can do that doesn't involve military intervention. A Russian oil and gas embargo is being discussed (but that would further back Putin into a corner and also have a harsh rippling effect on the global economy).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronin

are you talking like nuking cities at this point?

---

I'm talking anything and everything that could be an option for Russia.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronin

On the other point, there's plenty NATO and the rest of the world can do that doesn't involve military intervention.

---

How much of a deterrent effect will those actions have?

With Russia's treatment of gays and lesbians, it may be time to dust off the Gay Bombs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PPatty

Until NATO intervenes militarily, what's the downside of escalation at this point for Russia?

---

Irradiating the region you wish to control and gain value from is a pretty terrible idea? Unless the goal of the attack is simply to cause as much damage to Ukraine as possible - and nothing we've seen, including the map of the attack plans and the statement they wanted to release after the attack succeeded, would indicate that - anything that damages the long-term productivity of the region should be a simple "no, of course you wouldn't do that". This is the sort of thing I'd expect from the Russians if they felt they were going to be forced out of the area, and right now that doesn't look like it's happening.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delores Mulva

Irradiating the region you wish to control and gain value from is a pretty terrible idea? Unless the goal of the attack is simply to cause as much damage to Ukraine as possible - and nothing we've seen, including the map of the attack plans and the statement they wanted to release after the attack succeeded, would indicate that - anything that damages the long-term productivity of the region should be a simple "no, of course you wouldn't do that". This is the sort of thing I'd expect from the Russians if they felt they were going to be forced out of the area, and right now that doesn't look like it's happening.

---

It's just an aggressive method of disinfecting the region from COVID.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delores Mulva

Irradiating the region you wish to control and gain value from is a pretty terrible idea?

---

Only if you care, which I'm not sure the Putin regime does.

If they follow the previous playbook for a meltdown, they'll just pour cement over it, fence off a 40 x 40 km area around the nuclear plant, call it another exclusion zone and then move on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PPatty

How much of a deterrent effect will those actions have?

---

For Putin? Who knows -- probably none. The rest of Russia may be another story.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8hC-b4tCT0


Kremlin staff didn't expect Putin to invade Ukraine and were shocked by the severity of Western sanctions, report says
https://www.businessinsider.com/krem...-report-2022-3

Upper-middle-class exodus out of Russia...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ia-ukraine-war

Former National Security Advisor John Bolton says 'Putin was waiting' for Trump to withdraw the United States from NATO in his second term

Quote:

---

• Former National Security Advisor John Bolton said Putin was "waiting" for Trump to withdraw the US from NATO.
• He previously warned that Trump would have withdrawn from the alliance if he'd won a 2nd term.
• Bolton also said Trump's "main interest" in Ukraine was trying to "find Hillary Clinton's computer server."

Former National Security Advisor John Bolton said on Friday that Russian President Vladimir Putin was waiting for former President Donald Trump to withdraw the United States from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization if he had won a second term.

Bolton made the remarks during a virtual event with the Washington Post on the Russian invasion of Ukraine, where Bolton mostly offered critiques of current President Joe Biden's foreign policy in the region. At the end of the event, he was asked by the Post's Michael Duffy about how close Trump came to withdrawing the country from NATO, a transatlantic security alliance that includes the United States, Canada, and most of Europe.

"I thought he put his foot over it, but at least he didn't withdraw then," said Bolton, who wrote in his memoir about Trump's consideration of withdrawing from NATO in 2018. "In a second Trump term, I think he may well have withdrawn from NATO. And I think Putin was waiting for that."

Trump viewed NATO as a liability during his presidency, believing that European countries were not paying enough of their fair share of the burden of providing defense to the alliance. Bolton, a State Department official during the George W. Bush administration, was brought on to be Trump's national security advisor in 2018 only to be ousted a year and a half later.

Bolton's latest comments come just days after he told Newsmax that Trump "barely knew where Ukraine was," pushing back on a host who said the former president had been "tough on Russia."

Asked whether he was satisfied by how the Trump administration handled Ukraine, Bolton criticized his former boss.

"I think it went very badly," said Bolton. "It was hard to have discussions on geostrategic issues when the president's main interest was getting... Rudy Giuliani in to see [Ukrainian President Volodymyr] Zelensky so they could go find Hillary Clinton's computer server.

He added that Ukraine's position in the "maelstrom of American presidential politics" in the last few years made it difficult for Zelensky to establish a proper relationship with the United States, which Bolton said was Ukraine's "potentially most important supporter."

Trump was impeached for the first time over his withholding of $400 million in military aid to Ukraine in order to pressure Zelensky to launch an investigation into Biden and his son Hunter over allegations of corruption.

Bolton said on Friday that former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and former Defense Secretary Mark Esper were concerned by Trump's behavior at the time. "All of us felt that we needed to bolster Ukraine's security, and were appalled at what Trump was doing," he said.

---

They may have been "concerned and appalled", but at the time they kept quiet about it like good little minions...

Just to be clear, actively supporting an enemy's plans to take over the world wasn't enough to say anything. But money? They'll do it in a heartbeat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarbonius

It's time for a Strength (of Character) check, Silverblade: None of the arguments you put forward here hold up, given Russia's subsequent invasion of the entirety of Ukraine.

None of them.

And you have been completely silent since then.


I'm hoping you roll a natural 20 here, not a 1.


(I'm even being nice and ignoring the terms of Ukraine's agreement to surrender its nuclear weapons to Russia (1994 Budapest Memorandum), in exchange for "security assurances against threats or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan.")

---

Yo. Silver. I'd love to hear a response...

Just a reminder that bandwagoning isn't just an American thing, we just do it better... :p

Parisian restaurant receives threats after people thought Poutine dish was named after Putin

Quote:

---

A Paris restaurant has been hit with threats by customers who thought its signature dish poutine was named after the Russian president Vladimir Putin.

Poutine, which consists of French fries and cheese curds topped with gravy, is particularly popular in Canada and France.

But La Maison de la Poutine, or the House of Poutine, claimed it had received “calls of insults and even threats” over the dish.

The row appears to have come about because when said aloud, the words Poutine and Putin sound similar.

In a statement, the business, which has branches in Paris and Toulouse, said: “Our dish was born in Quebec in the 1950s. And the stories to tell its origin are numerous.

“But one thing is certain: poutine was created by passionate cooks who wanted to bring joy and comfort to their customers.

“The House of Poutine has worked since its first day to perpetuate these values and today brings its most sincere support to the Ukrainian people who are courageously fighting for their freedom against the tyrannical Russian regime.”

In Quebec, Canada, one restaurant temporarily renamed Poutine on its menu as a gesture of solidarity with Ukraine.

Le Roy Jucep wrote in a Facebook post it was changing the name to “la frite fromage sauce” which translates to “the fry cheese gravy”.

A number of companies have renamed or altered products in solidarity with the Ukrainian people, including in the UK.

The Co-op will no longer sell Russian Standard vodka, the supermarket announced last week.

A spokesperson said: “In response to the ongoing invasion of Ukraine by Russian forces and as a sign of solidarity with the people of Ukraine, we have taken the decision to remove from sale Russian-made vodka.

Meanwhile, Sainsbury’s said it would also drop the vodka while renaming its chicken kievs to chicken kyiv in a display of solidarity with Ukraine.

The supermarket said last week it would donate two million to help Ukrainian refugees and it would match charitable donations made through its Nectar app, up to a maximum of £500,000.

---

In French the two words sound very similar, more so than in English.

industrial grade stupidity also is not unique to America