So, USA's setting up another false flag war, but one that will bite us all in the ass

[Silverblade-T-E]

so when is Russia really gonna invade Ukraine, hm?
last week, Friday, no it's next Wednesday! etc etc
*face palm*

And as usual, it's all really about geopolitics and greed, fuck all to do with peace, democracy or saving lives.
US demanding Germany shut down Nordstream2 when the Germans need gas desperately
and Biden & his masters selling them some at hugely inflated prices from Dubai, while treating the German leader like their bitch in public which has NOT went down well.
Even the Ukrainians have woken up to the fact the USA is using them as expendable stooges


And of course many will believe the official shit despite 60 fucking years of the USA stirring up wars all over the world with "false flag" BS and assassinations galore
Except, this time, they are getting too close to Russia for comfort

So, Putin has bluntly put it that if any US bomb or troops are on their soil, WW3 begins
But the US/Uk leaders just aren't listening, look at the fucking imbecile UK sent, or how Macron behaved.
And Biden? Up to his arse in corruption in Ukraine and dementia as well? Wagging the German leader like he's stuck on the end of his dick?

Yes I know Putin is a brutal SOB, but, that's the only way he's kept HIS country from being ass raped by the shit fuckers of the West who are substantially worse, see Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria etc left in ruins.
Hence why the Russians are prepared to go nuclear if they get invaded.
DAY GLOW FOR EVERYONE!

Go on Neoliberal/Necon supporting idiots, keep at it and see how much you enjoy the response.
China has actually *allied* with Russia, formally now, because of USA lunacy
kinda been missed in all the war hysteria, that has, or that China's had enough and it's the end of the "US Century"

I doubt they are gonna launch nukes unless actually invaded/bombed at home, in which case they WILL, they have very different outlooks ot the dumb ass scum running our nations, but I bet you they are about to unleash the economic catastrophe I've been talking about for months
Greed is the West's biggest Achilles heel, what all these mad wars are about, raping the planet for the last resources, the lies over inflation, unemployment and GDP.....

So, the UA's shadow leaders, whoever the fuck they are, have bled their nation dry warmongering and destroying all sane norms, and long as Russia/China stay out of US invasion and robbery the USA will collapse from it's own greed
But if they keep up this shit, then a wee bit of cyberwarfare, market manipulation has been or is done....economic implosion occurs in the West because all the sane norms, the laws and honest oversight have been removed.
I seriously believe the Chinese have set up a "2008 Financial Crisis" on steroids and can trigger it off if the USA keeps on with its shit, using the likes of Evergrande to suck the greedy bankers into a gigantic trap of their own making.

IF this economic collapse occurs, just like has happened before, those at the top will be dealt with by the street mob, horribly.
This will be bad beyond all belief, and thinking it cannot happen is fucking stupid and dangerous, as folk found out around 460 AD in Rome, 1917 Russia, etc

Is anyone listening?

[Dramadon]

I don't understand how so many people think that Russia massing troops on the Ukraine border is somehow orchestrated by the United States. What, did Biden call up Putin one night and just tell him to invade? We need some good ole fashioned MIC action over here now that we are no longer in Afghanistan?

At some point, you have to stop appeasing the dictator. He's already taken Crimea and now we are ok with him taking Ukraine? What happens when he starts taking countries farther west? We've already done this before and it wasn't pretty. I don't want to go to war either, but the more the west continues to cave to him, the more he's going to keep doing it. I don't know what the proper response is to this, and putting troops in the Ukraine to help defend them is actually pretty low on the list of responses I would like to see, but we are going to have to do something. I'm convinced there is no talking Putin out of invading. It's going to happen whether the west does anything or not. We just need to hope that crippling the Russian economy is worth it. Or even possible, Putin isn't stupid so I suspect he's cut some sort of deal with China to get whatever he needs despite any embargoes.

I don't like any of our options here. It's a shitty situation created by a piece of shit man who would do the world a favor if he would just drink one of his own radioactive cocktails.

[Ronin]

Putin orders massive troop and equipment buildup on the border of Ukraine, Crimea (which they seized in 2014), and Belarus. Putin issued demands that Ukraine not be admitted into NATO and NATO not deploy forces to Poland and Baltic states. Russia has bold demands that are flat-out designed for the West to reject. This isn't last year's buildup. They have field hospitals, fuel bowsers, loads of ammunition. We should not discount the largest cyberattack in Ukraine's history that just occurred, too.

So one of two things are occurring. A) they are planning a military operation, or b) last year's bluff for leverage did not work because military intelligence pointed out the buildup was all teeth and no tail (aka you can't just push without supply lines and backup for your offensive).

And it's USA's false flag?

If you look at Russian polls, there's no enthusiasm for any type of war. If you look at US polls, there's no enthusiasm for any type of war. If you've been paying any attention to American politics, you'd understand that the GOP feels closer to Russia than Democrats, which is a far cry for any Republican who idolizes Reagan or at least used to.

Sanctions do not work; Putin has spent a long time essentially sanction-proofing the Russian economy. This has been the case for at least the last 7 years.

The biggest mistake here was the prospect of Ukraine and Georgia joining NATO. It angered Russia and created unrealistic expectations for Ukraine and Georgia. You can't enter NATO without the unanimous support of all 30 member countries. This really put Ukraine in an impossible position. You're not going to meet the criteria to join NATO, but you also just upset Russia without NATO protection.

Ukraine and Russia have been linked since what, the 9th century? The languages are very similar. However, it completely depends on what part of Ukraine you are looking at. It is worth noting that Crimea and Donbas are very different. Seizing Crimea boosted Putin's popularity because of course it did. Even though the annexation was illegally done and not recognized internationally, the reality is Crimea was a territory that pretty much every Russian thought was rightfully Russian. It was a long-standing territory that belonged to Russia up until the 1950s and why most Crimeans really wanted to become part of Russia.

Donbas is a completely different situation from Crimea. While Russia picked security over economic growth (and sanction proofing), Ukraine became more democratic and more friendly to the West. Ukraine gets richer and standards of living have gone up. This is not lost on Russians. Ukraine is heading towards joining NATO and losing the pro-Russian leader in 2014, it's moving faster, even doing joint military exercises with NATO. Moscow has used Donbas as a destabilizer for Kyiv. This creates a difficult situation for Ukraine to build a successful state and reach the milestones it needs to get into NATO. Putin also realizes that Ukrainians here will fight. Russia would win, no doubt, but they'd have to play an occupying force in an area that is bitterly hostile toward Russia. Russia could take Ukraine, but it cannot hold it.

This is not about Russia. This is about Putin and the demise of "Historical Russia" as they see it. This is about a bunch of old Soviets who genuinely believe the West is hostile and is denying Russia its place as a superpower by undermining their regime.

[Silverblade-T-E]

So, you have learned NOTHING from the USA's bullshit wars over our lives and last 60 years and more, hm?

Where are Saddam's "WMD"?
Why did a decent honourable man have to be murdered and his death still a cover up to this day? (Dr David Kelly)

See similar shit with the First "Western" Gulf War
And notice how these atrocities always occur when the US economy gets rocky about 2 to 3 years after a economic problem.

US has left Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan in ruins...and NONE of them are on the USA's borders.

the West real leaders are worst than the brutal but sensible ones in charge of Russia and China (and isn't THAT ironic that Putin and Pi are smarter by miles than their Western enemies?)
Ours are just Nazis with better smiles and a hypocritical, lying cloak of pretend "virtue"

You refuse to learn, but you will pay the price along with the rest of us, YOU are on the menu

[Delores Mulva]

So, you have learned NOTHING from the USA's bullshit wars over our lives and last 60 years and more, hm?

So the logic here is the country has lied before, so they're only capable of lying? Let's use that! Hey, the Soviet Union lied to their people and the world for decades, and Putin is a direct product of the Soviet system, so by SilverLogic (TM) he's lying now and cannot be trusted! Have you learned NOTHING from Russian bullshit over the last century, hm?

You really need to stop reading the crap news sites you visit that love conspiracies. If nothing else, you should recognize that conspiracy sites tend to lean far towards the right side of the political spectrum (mostly libertarians in the prepper crowd). Someone like yourself, a Thatcher-hater dependent on welfare and public health care, shouldn't be comfortable with some of the conclusions those fellows reach base on their beliefs. Or did you really believe that moderates were spouting "Let's Go Brandon" like you did a short time ago?

[Zarbonius]

so when is Russia really gonna invade Ukraine, hm?
last week, Friday, no it's next Wednesday! etc etc
*face palm*

This is the dilemma faced by anyone advocating preventive action: if you act to prevent something from happening, and then it doesn't occur, was that because of your intervention or was that just you crying wolf?

IMNSHO, this is a smart play by the US. By getting in front of this, you undercut the credibility of Russia's pretexts for invasion, which strengthens the political will for an international response against Russia. If it prevents them from invading entirely, then so much the better.

If it delays then long enough for their tanks to get stuck in the spring mud (this is a thing in Russia, you can look it up), they either abandon the invasion or it's effectiveness is significantly compromised.

And as usual, it's all really about geopolitics and greed, fuck all to do with peace, democracy or saving lives.

Regardless of what it's "all really about", a Russian invasion of Ukraine *will* destabilize a country that is embracing liberal, democratic principles. Even putting aside the lives that would be lost in an invasion/wat, preserving that kind of society (especially given the recent global trends toward authoritarianism) is reason enough to intervene.

[Dramadon]

So, you have learned NOTHING from the USA's bullshit wars over our lives and last 60 years and more, hm?

Where are Saddam's "WMD"?
Why did a decent honourable man have to be murdered and his death still a cover up to this day? (Dr David Kelly)

See similar shit with the First "Western" Gulf War
And notice how these atrocities always occur when the US economy gets rocky about 2 to 3 years after a economic problem.

US has left Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan in ruins...and NONE of them are on the USA's borders.

the West real leaders are worst than the brutal but sensible ones in charge of Russia and China (and isn't THAT ironic that Putin and Pi are smarter by miles than their Western enemies?)
Ours are just Nazis with better smiles and a hypocritical, lying cloak of pretend "virtue"

You refuse to learn, but you will pay the price along with the rest of us, YOU are on the menu

WMD's in Iraq was a clear fabrication that everyone not making money off the lie or in Washington still believing the spirit of "bipartisanship" saw right through. They had no real evidence to support the claims they were making. However in this case, there is a ton of evidence to support what the US is saying. Private, commercial satellite companies are showing pictures of the Russian buildup on the border. Video footage is being taken. Even Putin isn't denying they are there. The lie they are using it is a training exercise. Because of course, in the largest country in the world the only place they can have military drills is also the same location that would be most internationally destabilizing. I'm sure it is just a complete unfortunate coincidence. Or it was all designed by the US.

I don't want war, but I also don't want some dictator just running roughshod over the rest of Europe. If there is no opposition to a Ukraine invasion, where is Putin's next target? A non-NATO country again? What's to say NATO doesn't push a plan to invite all these countries that Putin doesn't want to become NATO? He will have created the exact situation he wanted to avoid.

[Silverblade-T-E]

Dramadon

it's THEIR border, they can do WTF they want on their side
just as you know, USA holds enormous war drill near the Mexican border
Ukraine is on THEIR backyard, not the USA's or UKs

USA's war history proves it's a lying, mass murdering hypocritical monster even worse than the British Empire was.
Vietnam war = false flag, CIA terrorist bombings and Tonkin Gulf Incident lies nd that is par for the course
If "everyone knew WMD were lies" then why the fuck was that war let to occur, why do folk still deny Bush linked 9/11 with Saddam?

All those US wars and terrorism, oddly enough, whacked Soviet and now Russian allies
Russia and China know the USA is coming for them, USA has made that plain by its actions and attitude, and thus, the Russians and Chinese are going to EXTERMINATE America in return, it's population and the whole damn West if the USA does put it's toe over the line.
They have a very different outlook to the numb nuts in charge of the West and its media, they see the absolute ruin America leaves in its wake and thus will not turn the other cheek and be wiped out without returning the favour.


Explosion in Russian supporting Ukrainian region, outside offices of their militia commander...
USA intelligence claims "it was just a gas pipeline explosion!"
Riiiiight!

Shooting down of the airliner few years ago...funny how exact same model and same airline disappeared in the Indian Ocean, after it flew by Diego Garcia, USA secret base leased off the UK who stole it from the natives, and the Russians DON'T have a base anywhere near there
and the missile missed Putin's own aircraft by 15 minutes
and we STILL haven't found any major wreckage of the one that went down in the Indian Ocean...funny that, isn't it?
or the several airliners who went down in the Atlantic off the US Eastern seaboard some decades ago in very suspicious circumstances, hint: US missile tests

[Zarbonius]

Russia and China know the USA is coming for them, USA has made that plain by its actions and attitude,

I don't think even you know exactly what you mean, specifically, by that.

The US and Russia (and/or China) are not geopolitical allies, and are certainly competitors in the economic space, but do you really and truly believe that the US (and who specifically in the US, btw? Military leadership? Civilian leaders?) intends to attack and destroy (how? massive civilian deaths? Regime change? Crippling economic actions?) Russia or China?

[Silverblade-T-E]

I don't think even you know exactly what you mean, specifically, by that.

The US and Russia (and/or China) are not geopolitical allies, and are certainly competitors in the economic space, but do you really and truly believe that the US (and who specifically in the US, btw? Military leadership? Civilian leaders?) intends to attack and destroy (how? massive civilian deaths? Regime change? Crippling economic actions?) Russia or China?

Zarb

the USA and UK have been run by a shadow cabal for a long time, as over time those with power always seek to ruthlessly conserve that power ands set up such cabals in any society or even any system.
With the age and wealth/power of our nations that has gotten exacerbated, and NO it's not "conspiracy theory", it's how the Human Race actually works, we have tons of proof, see:
Ancient Rome, Medieval Italy split up into viciously competing city states whom the Church ensured never allied to threaten their power, to the bureaucracies of the Czars etc
The word "Byzantine" entered the lexicon for a damn good reason you know!

So, today, the USA/UK and thus lot of the West is manipulated from on high by various groups of gits, from University frats who've gone way too far, see the "Bullingdon Club"
to noble families, to banking dynasties, to groupings of socio-economics (NeoCons/NeoLiberals) etc
It's not homogenous, but they are nearly all actual sociopaths (and bring their children up to be so), many are drug addicts and lots are perverts (oh look! another Epstein associate has died in jail, who'd a thunk it?!)

Not having some part of the world under their control gnaws at them, they aren't sane, they want to rule the world at any cost to others
part of it is xenophobia, thinking THEY are superior hence they also are restarting Eugenics again in our countries
Many are descendants of the bastards who funded Hitler and got away with it

Davos etc are places where they can meet up and plot out their crap for the next few years

Look at Rupert Murdoch who's part of this, what a vile, ugly in spirit and flesh piece of shit, responsible for mega deaths by promoting racism and war, just like his dad!

another example as proof: 1929 Crash, a certain bank KNEW it was coming, didn't warn the Public, encouraged them to keep buying stocks etc...and when it all went to hell , hoovered those poor sods money up.

General Smedley Butler exposed the evil that was so-called "Democratic Free America", murdering millions around the globe for it's fucking corporations

But hey, keep believing in the BS nightmare if you want, as usual any one that tries to wake you up gets attacked
pillocks refused to listen in 1914, 1939 etc...this time however...

[Zarbonius]

Zarb

-- "shadow cabal"

-- "Ancient Rome, Medieval Italy"

-- "Bullingdon Club"

-- "NeoCons/NeoLiberals"

-- "nearly all actual sociopaths"

-- "they want to rule the world at any cost to others"

-- "they also are restarting Eugenics"

--"Many are descendants of the bastards who funded Hitler"

-- "Davos"

-- "Rupert Murdoch who's part of this"

-- "another example as proof: 1929 Crash, a certain bank KNEW it was coming"

-- "General Smedley Butler"

That's 12 separate threads to pull on, each of which could be its own discussion, and each of which would have to be backed up by at least some sort of resources to support your claim.

But you just throw them all out there, with no apparent links between them, and claim that is "proof" of the US's intent to destroy Russia and China. Hell, there wasn't even an attempt to make a coherent argument there; just a shotgun blast of whatever conspiracy theories were rattling through your brain at that moment.

But hey, keep believing in the BS nightmare if you want, as usual any one that tries to wake you up gets attacked

I'm not attacking you. I'm saying that you are not making any logical arguments at all here. For all I know, all 12 of your assertions may be accurate, and you may be 100% correct that they all support what your argument about the US vs Russia/China.

But I'm not going to chase all of those down to see if all (or any) of those are true; and/or if they are true, if they actually do link together to support what you're claiming. I just don't have the time to do so.



This isn't me attacking you - this is me telling you that you are being incoherent. If you want me (or anyone) to take what you are saying at least somewhat seriously, then you need to put more effort into making yourself understandable. In this day and age, when supporting information is (should be) easy to find, and it is so straightforward to cite/link to, there is no excuse not to.


So no, you don't get to play the victim ("nobody listens to me!") here, because you chose (CHOSE) to present your case in the form of a scattershot array of random, unsupported wild assertions. Maybe you're Cassandra, or maybe you're Jerry Fletcher. Or maybe you just picked and ate the wrong wild mushrooms on your last picnic. From your posts (content AND style), nobody can tell.

But you've gotta work a bit harder on your communication here. (Pro tips: focus on one conspiracy theory per post, not 12; provide at least 3 links that kinda sorta support what you're saying, or at least provide some sort of context; drop the persecution complex).

[Zarbonius]

so when is Russia really gonna invade Ukraine, hm?
last week, Friday, no it's next Wednesday! etc etc
*face palm*

Well, I guess the answer was "Monday".

[Silverblade-T-E]

Well, I guess the answer was "Monday".

Those 2 regions are pro-RUSSIAN and have been constantly attacked by the actual fucking NAZI nutbags on the Ukrainian side, with civilians killed all the damn time
funny how the "NeoLiberal" Western propaganda overlooks that, isn't it?
UK troops teaching them how to conduct guerrilla warfare caught on camera cause the Ukrainians were so gung-ho they posted the pics!

Look at the geography, Crimea and Ukraine are absolutely essential to Russia's security, hence the agreements put in place when USSR fell that NATO would not move East
How would you feel if Western Canada went pro-Russian and began shelling Winnipeg?

Do you recall the US and UK were os arrogant and stupid they sent (or planned ot in UK's case) aircraft carriers into the Black Sea?
frikkin UK destroyer sailed around Crimean coast in range of the Russians artillery, FFS
Those sailors must have been shitting themselves because they knew how close they were ot getting sunk and provoking WW3

RUSSIA'S BACKYARD, NOT FUCKING OURS!

You may have missed the fact that China *allied* with Russia other week

You lot are as fucking mad and ignorant as the dumb bastards in 1914, looking forward to "thrashing the Hun!" or "Invading the poofy French!", or "Revenge for Franco-Prussian War defeat!"
Didn't turn out well for anyone but the worms and crows, that did...or, the bankers and arms makers.

[Zarbonius]

Those 2 regions are pro-RUSSIAN and have been constantly attacked by the actual fucking NAZI nutbags on the Ukrainian side, with civilians killed all the damn time

EDIT - changing my response here.

You've moved the goalposts. You said this was an American false flag operation that would result in war (it's in the thread title).

Then you said that the predictions about when a Russian invasion would occur were crazy.

Now, you're saying that it's ok that the Russians invaded, and you're repeating the Russian propaganda claims regarding Ukraine almost word for word.


Silver, you're a colourful character with a tendency toward conspiracy theories, but I think you've gone a bit far on this one.


Check.

Your.

Sources.

[Delores Mulva]

Those 2 regions are pro-RUSSIAN....

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...um_1991_No.png

The map shows the percentage of people who voted "no" to independence from Russia back in 1991. Crimea? Yes, very Russian, has the home port of the Black Sea fleet, yadda yadda. Donetsk and Luhansk, which is where Russian "peacekeeping" forces just went? Not so much. Skipping the rest of the post because it looks like it was lifted straight from Russia Today. (My Russian friend used to get some of her "back home" news from RT, until I started pointing out where it would flat-out lie to make Putin look good. Now she sticks with BBC World.)

[Delores Mulva]

Oh, oops! Forgot: link for BBC article about the slow, steady invasion: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60468237

Germany just pulled the plug on the pipeline, and every other Western nation is lining up to bury Russia economically, so hope it was worth it, Vlad.

[Dramadon]

Russia has a long list of <name> the <adjective> rulers. Like Ivan the Terrible, Catherine the Great. Can we call Putin, Vlad the Mad?

[Silverblade-T-E]

Oh, oops! Forgot: link for BBC article about the slow, steady invasion: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60468237

Germany just pulled the plug on the pipeline, and every other Western nation is lining up to bury Russia economically, so hope it was worth it, Vlad.

You REALLY don't get it, do you?
this was all about US bullying as usual, to stop Nordstream2, to weaken Russia AND Germany/Europe, and to control the resources of Ukraine
and to prove they still have "power" and maybe even get a nice war going to take Russia over...

Germany is now utterly fucked as their energy costs will triple in the end, guess what that does to their economy?
Then Europe's economy....
Oh and yes, to public safety, national security and all that stuff when folk go absolutely mental when hyperinflation hits and breaks the logistics system

and those massive price hikes will rebound onto US and Canadian consumers...oh and won't you love hyperinflation?

All while Trudeau actually has become a tyrant but you support his version of it, sigh



So long, and thanks for the fish!

[Zarbonius]

/shrug, I'm out.

[Delores Mulva]

You tried. Besides, you need to take time to arm yourself against the tyrant Trudeau and prepare for hyperinflation. No time to post!