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Thread: Draining Arizona: Mining For Water In The Desert Leaves Residents' Wells Dry

  1. #21
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    Re: Draining Arizona: Mining For Water In The Desert Leaves Residents' Wells Dry

    Yep, that's what is happening to several southeast Asian countries.

    The headwaters for most of their rivers originate in china, so china can steal that water before it can get to Laos, Thailand, and Vietnam.

  2. #22
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    Re: Draining Arizona: Mining For Water In The Desert Leaves Residents' Wells Dry


  3. #23
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    Re: Draining Arizona: Mining For Water In The Desert Leaves Residents' Wells Dry

    'Irresponsible use of our water': Drought-stricken cities question value of data centers

    On May 17, the City Council of Mesa, Arizona, approved the $800 million development of an enormous data center -- a warehouse filled with computers storing all of the photos, documents and other information we store “in the cloud” -- on an arid plot of land in the eastern part of the city.

    But keeping the rows of powerful computers inside the data center from overheating will require up to 1.25 million gallons of water each day, a price that Vice Mayor Jenn Duff believes is too high.“This has been the driest 12 months in 126 years,” she said, citing data from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. “We are on red alert, and I think data centers are an irresponsible use of our water.”

    Duff was the only Mesa City Council member to vote against the development. But she’s one of a growing number of people nationwide raising concerns about the proliferation of data centers, which guzzle electricity and water while creating relatively few jobs, particularly in drought-stricken parts of the United States.

    The spike in use of data-intensive cloud services such as video conferencing tools, video streaming sites like Netflix and YouTube and online gaming, particularly as people quarantined during the pandemic, has increased demand for the computing power offered by data centers globally. And this means more data centers are being built every day by some of America’s largest technology companies, including Amazon, Microsoft and Google and used by millions of customers. According to the Synergy Research Group, there were about 600 “hyperscale” data centers, massive operations designed and operated by a single company that then rents access to cloud services, globally by the end of 2020. That’s double the number there were in 2015. Almost 40 percent of them are in the United States, and Amazon, Google and Microsoft account for more than half of the total.

    The U.S. also has at least 1,800 “colocation” data centers, warehouses filled with a variety of smaller companies’ server hardware that share the same cooling system, electricity and security, according to Data Center Map. They are typically smaller than hyperscale data centers but, research has shown, more resource intensive as they maintain a variety of computer systems operating at different levels of efficiency.

    Many data center operators are drawn to water-starved regions in the West, in part due to the availability of solar and wind energy. Researchers at Virginia Tech estimate that one-fifth of data centers draw water from moderately to highly stressed watersheds, mostly in the Western United States, according to a paper published in April.

    Typically, where data centers are located is based on proximity to customers and infrastructure, the cost of land, the tax incentives offered by local governments and access to low-cost electricity, the researchers said.

    “I am not sure the degree to which environmental considerations are in the decision-making process,” said Landon Marston, lead author of the paper.

    All centers need some form of cooling technology, typically either computer room air-conditioning systems -- essentially large units that cool air with water or refrigerant -- or evaporative cooling, which evaporates water to cool the air. Evaporative cooling uses a lot less electricity, but more water. Since water is cheaper than electricity, data centers tend to opt for the more water-intensive approach.

    The growth in the industry shows no signs of slowing. The research company Gartner predicts that spending on global data center infrastructure will reach $200 billion this year, an increase of 6 percent from 2020, followed by 3-4 percent annually over the next three years. This growth comes at a time of record temperatures and drought in the United States, particularly in the West.

    “The typical data center uses about 3-5 million gallons of water per day -- the same amount of water as a city of 30,000-50,000 people,” said Venkatesh Uddameri, professor and director of the Water Resources Center at Texas Tech University.

    Although these data centers have become much more energy and water efficient over the last decade, and don’t use as much water as other industries such as agriculture, this level of water use can still create potential competition with local communities over the water supply in areas where water is scarce, he added.

    But some tech companies like Google say they are trying to address their water use.

    “As part of our water stewardship efforts, we’re working to utilize water more efficiently and exploring ways to incorporate circularity,” said Gary Demasi, senior director of energy and location operations at Google. “We have a site-specific approach where we work within the constraints of the local hydrological environment to find the best solutions.”

    He added that “many arid environments provide an abundant supply of carbon-free solar and wind energy,” which explains why data centers are drawn to those areas.

    Sergio Loureiro, vice president of core operations for Microsoft, said that the company has pledged to be “water positive” by 2030, which means it plans to replenish more water than it consumes globally. This includes reducing the company’s water use and investing in community replenishment and conservation projects near where it builds facilities.

    Amazon did not respond to requests for comment.


    Local concerns

    In recent years, tensions over water use by data centers have flared in communities across the United States. In 2017, conservation groups in South Carolina criticized Google over its request for a permit to draw 1.5 millions of gallons of water per day from a depleted aquifer to cool its expanding data center in Goose Creek. The facility already required 4 million gallons of tap water each day, and residents and conservation groups were concerned about the company’s impact on the dwindling groundwater supply. After a two-year battle with the South Carolina Coastal Conservation league over the plans, Google reached an agreement to use only groundwater under limited conditions, for example, during maintenance work or as a backup during drier months, and instead pay for an alternative source of surface water from the Charleston Water System.

    Google spokeswoman Mara Harris said that the company partnered with local community stakeholders and water conservation experts to assess the data center’s impact and conducted studies that showed that even in an “extreme worst-case scenario” the data center’s water use in the area would be sustainable.

    Both companies and consumers need to start treating water conservation as seriously as reducing carbon emissions, experts say.

    “We are going to experience a drier and more water-scare future, and every drop of water counts,” said Newsha Ajami, director of urban water policy at Stanford’s Woods Institute for the Environment. “It’s not just Amazon, Microsoft and Google causing these water footprints. But it’s you and me, searching and needing data that ends up in these data centers.”

    Ajami said that water has been historically undervalued as a resource in part because it has been cheap for companies to purchase. While many industries have taken great leaps in reducing their electricity use and carbon footprints, they lag behind in water efficiency throughout their supply chains, she said.

    “We often overlook the communities impacted, who are often disadvantaged,” she added. “If it was a wealthy community, maybe they wouldn’t allow the data centers to be built in their backyard.”


    Jobs versus water

    Water conservation experts say that a key challenge has been the lack of alignment between cities’ economic development plans and their resource conservation efforts. Often the promise of attracting a household-name technology company to build a billion-dollar data center that will bring jobs and investment to the region will override concerns over the water supply.

    “Cities don’t want to tell tech companies that they can’t come to their city because of lack of water,” said Cora Kammeyer, a senior researcher with the Pacific Institute, a nonprofit research organization that focuses on water conservation.

    Duff, the Mesa vice mayor, agrees.

    “When it comes to economic development, I don’t think we are fully transparent about the water concerns,” she said. “We want to keep the image that we are a great place to invest and start a business. But we don’t like to talk about the water.” The Mesa project approved on May 17, which was submitted under the name of a developer called Redale LLC, has been shrouded in secrecy. The name of the company that will run the data center has only been supplied to the city under a nondisclosure agreement, although one Mesa city source, who was not authorized to speak publicly about the deal and spoke on the condition of anonymity, said it was Facebook. The specialist news site Data Center Dynamics also reported that it was likely to be Facebook based on similarities in the planning specifications to its other data centers. Facebook declined to comment, and Redale did not respond to a request for comment. The proposed data center will employ an estimated 150 people across three buildings and pay the city millions of dollars in sales tax on the construction and utilities.

    Duff added that even though data centers don’t use as much water as other industries, they are “still depleting water in the desert, and that is a concern.”

    She noted that this is the “eighth or ninth” data center project in Mesa. The city previously approved a Google facility, currently under construction, that will consume up to 4 million gallons of water per day, as reported by Bloomberg. The Redale project represents a significant milestone to Mesa’s water supply as it’s the first where the city required the developer to obtain water credits from the Salt River Project to use groundwater in the event that the city can’t meet the data center’s demand for water.

    “It’s the only way we could say we had enough water for the business,” Duff said.

    Surface water supplies that Arizona uses from Lake Mead, America’s largest reservoir, and the Colorado River that feeds it, have already dwindled to their lowest levels ever, according to the Bureau of Reclamation, a federal water management agency. The water level is so low that federal restrictions are likely to be triggered on Arizona’s water allocation from the reservoir, which could happen at the start of 2022. Six other states in the West could also face such restrictions.

    As that happens, Duff said, more companies will start to draw on their “water credits” to use groundwater supplies. However, according to research by Arizona State University, these water credits are over allocated, meaning that if everybody started using them at the same time, there wouldn’t be enough water to go around.

    “We are very resourceful, but I think we need to wake up,” Duff said. “The analysis shows our safeguards aren’t there and we need to come up with a concrete plan instead of a hope and a prayer.”


    Pushing back

    To the south of Mesa, the city of Chandler, Arizona, has taken a different approach. In 2015 the city passed an ordinance that restricted new water-intensive businesses from developing unless they aligned with the city’s plan for economic development. It effectively deters businesses that use a lot of water but don’t create many jobs, including data centers, in favor of those that create thousands of jobs, such as semiconductor plants.

    The city’s water resource manager, Gregg Capps, said the ordinance, the first of its kind in the U.S., was introduced as a direct result of discovering in 2013 how much water one of the data centers in the city was using after the company started requesting additional water connections. “We didn’t know a whole lot about them back then, but that brought our attention to their water use,” he said.

    His team took their concerns to the City Council, which spent months developing the ordinance. Since it was adopted in 2015, there have been no new data center developments in Chandler.

    “Water is a strategic resource. It’s important to us,” Capps said.


    Cool innovations

    The Silicon Valley technology companies that dominate the hyperscale data center market -- Amazon, Google and Microsoft -- are conscious of the business and reputational risk associated with data centers’ thirst. All of them have made some progress in reducing their data centers’ water footprint through innovative cooling strategies. These include free-air cooling, which uses fresh outdoor air to cool a space, and immersion cooling, where servers are submerged in a liquid that boils at a lower temperature than water, taking the heat with it. However, free-air cooling only really works in cooler climates, and immersion was just used for the first time in a commercial setting by Microsoft in April.

    Some companies, including Microsoft have developed underwater or partially submerged data centers that rely on large bodies of already cool water to disperse heat.

    Google’s Demasi said that the company cooled its data centers using seawater in Finland, industrial canal water in Belgium and recycled wastewater in the United States, at its site in Douglas County, Georgia.

    Switching over to new technologies can be extremely costly, and data center operators are more likely to wait until the end of the lifecycle of the existing equipment than retrofit cooling systems, said Todd Boucher, founder of the data center design firm Leading Edge Design Group.


    Future generations

    In Mesa, Duff is thinking about the legacy of the decisions her city, and others, are making about water now. “I am 61 years old, and I know that in whatever lifetime I have left I will not see the total impact of what we are doing today,” she said. “But our children and their children will, and we have to take responsibility for that.”“I hope the next generation does not look back at ours and say, ‘What were you thinking?’” she said. “I’d like to think we saw the warnings and started taking aggressive measures in order to preserve our planet and our lives.”

  4. #24
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    Re: Draining Arizona: Mining For Water In The Desert Leaves Residents' Wells Dry

    We should run DCs on grey water, That is the water that comes out of a sewage treatment plant. In the US it technically has to be basically good enough to feed back into the city water system at the start of the normal input water processes, But that has image issues of course. But for a data center they just need water for the air conditioners.

    The other idea is ditch evaporative water cooling in favor of closed loops like what water cooling does with PCs.
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    Re: Draining Arizona: Mining For Water In The Desert Leaves Residents' Wells Dry

    Quote Originally Posted by FilanFyretracker View Post
    We should run DCs on grey water, That is the water that comes out of a sewage treatment plant. In the US it technically has to be basically good enough to feed back into the city water system at the start of the normal input water processes, But that has image issues of course. But for a data center they just need water for the air conditioners.

    The other idea is ditch evaporative water cooling in favor of closed loops like what water cooling does with PCs.
    Agreed. Many wastewater plants in California put better quality water back into the system than had it been pumped directly from said system.

    You are spot on with the image issue as "toilet to tap." However, with the constant drought and lack of water, it's finally becoming more acceptable. Singapore's success with it kind of showed how effective it could be. There's a push to reclaim wastewater to drinking water in the bay area, too: https://www.purewater4u.org/about-us/

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    Re: Draining Arizona: Mining For Water In The Desert Leaves Residents' Wells Dry

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    Agreed. Many wastewater plants in California put better quality water back into the system than had it been pumped directly from said system.

    You are spot on with the image issue as "toilet to tap." However, with the constant drought and lack of water, it's finally becoming more acceptable. Singapore's success with it kind of showed how effective it could be. There's a push to reclaim wastewater to drinking water in the bay area, too: https://www.purewater4u.org/about-us/
    I mean heck water recycling is already a thing on the ISS for drinking supply.
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  7. #27
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    Re: Draining Arizona: Mining For Water In The Desert Leaves Residents' Wells Dry

    Work on graphene based water filters is very promising, especially since there's now a relatively cheap easy way to make graphene
    questions are though: price, durability and can such filters be reused?


    sigh all this was so bloody obvious even 40 years ago

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    Re: Draining Arizona: Mining For Water In The Desert Leaves Residents' Wells Dry

    Thieves in California are stealing scarce water amid extreme drought, 'devastating' some communities

    As an extreme drought grips California, making water increasingly scarce, thieves are making off with billions of gallons of the precious resource, tapping into fire hydrants, rivers, and even small family homes and farms.

    State and local officials say water theft is a long running-issue, but the intensifying drought has driven the thefts to record levels as reservoirs dry up and bandits make off with stolen water, often to cultivate the growth of illegal marijuana crops.

    "Water stealing has never been more severe," said John Nores, head of the California Department of Fish and Wildlife Marijuana Enforcement Team. The agency has been fighting the thefts for years, usually in rural areas of the parched state, that have been "devastating" communities, he said.

    More than 12 billion gallons of water are estimated to have been stolen across the state since 2013, impacting legitimate farming operations, drinking water sources, Native American tribes and small communities, Nores said.

    How thieves are getting their hands on water

    Officials say the thieves are getting their hands on water by breaking into secure water stations, drilling into water lines, tapping into fire hydrants and using violence and threats against farmers, making off with truckloads of water for their crops under cover of darkness.

    The issue has become so severe that some communities have been forced to place locks on fire hydrants or remove them altogether.

    "The amount of water that is being stolen to water those (marijuana) plants has a huge impact on our local aquifers," Siskiyou County Sheriff Jeremiah LaRue told CNN. His rural county in the northernmost part of the state is one of the hardest hit by thieves, where many residents rely on well water.

    Yvonne West, director of the State Water Resources Control Board's Office of Enforcement, told CNN that the board has recently received an "uptick in complaints" of stolen water. It is a "local problem" in smaller communities, West said.

    In Southern California, about 300 residents in the Antelope Valley saw their water system crash last year after thieves used water trucks to tap fire hydrants and water mains illegally. Water pressure in the area north of Los Angeles dropped so low at one point, it caused "the system to fail," said Anish Saraiya, public works deputy for Los Angeles County Supervisor Kathryn Barger.

    The county has seen up to 18 water main breaks, forcing the waterworks department to spend about a half-million dollars responding to the incidents, Saraiya said.

    "It's a growing problem," Saraiya told CNN.

    Theft happening as California enters its hottest stretch

    As California enters its hottest and driest stretch of the year, which forces municipalities to increasingly restrict water use, the thefts are threatening to make a bad situation even more dire.

    "As the state enters another potential drought emergency, we need to ensure that this new activity does not further exacerbate water scarcity," Barger said in a statement to CNN.

    Officials say they are doing all they can to combat the issue by removing fire hydrants, securing key water sources and implementing greater enforcement to stop would-be thieves from making off with water.

    The California Department of Fish and Wildlife MET team has made more than 900 felony arrests of illegal cannabis growers and removed over 400 miles of pipes diverting water from natural streams to man-made dams, Nores said. Those diversions threaten native fish and wildlife that depend on the water to survive during hot summer months.

    As officials move to crack down on the thieves, the drought -- which now covers every corner of the state -- threatens to create long-term impacts as climate change exacerbates the hot and dry conditions, creating a vicious feedback loop that becomes harder to break.

    "All of California has to get used to this concept of water scarcity," West said.

  9. #29
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    Re: Draining Arizona: Mining For Water In The Desert Leaves Residents' Wells Dry

    Time to install thermoacoustic cooling systems.
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    Re: Draining Arizona: Mining For Water In The Desert Leaves Residents' Wells Dry

    Quote Originally Posted by Dramadon View Post
    The advantage of a dictatorship...or whatever you call China's government these days. If you want something done, you just make it happen. No pesky laws, land rights, or opposition. The disadvantage is if you are in the way of something they want to do you get run over like a steam roller and there isn't anything you can do but bend over and grab your ankles.
    They can also block reporting on how effective their "flood control" actually is.


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    Re: Draining Arizona: Mining For Water In The Desert Leaves Residents' Wells Dry

    I think they had a couple of dams give way with the heavy rains which caused the flooding, but yeah. Also, there had to be hundreds of people killed in all that but of course China is reporting that nobody died. This despite the photos I've seen of clearly drowned people laying on the ground.

    I've been seeing increasing numbers of reports expressing concern with the Three Gorges Dam as well. Evidently it's showing signs of fatigue and may have actually buckled a bit after a flood last year. Or, I might just be seeing alarmist clickbait on the internet. Given China's history though, you can't just disregard them offhand.

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    Re: Draining Arizona: Mining For Water In The Desert Leaves Residents' Wells Dry

    There were reports last year predicting the Three Gorges Dam was going to collapse that rainy season, mostly from right-wing publications. This could be a continuation of that, with more reputable outlets looking into the story.

  13. #33
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    Re: Draining Arizona: Mining For Water In The Desert Leaves Residents' Wells Dry

    Utah's Great Salt Lake is also shrinking fast.


  14. #34
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    Re: Draining Arizona: Mining For Water In The Desert Leaves Residents' Wells Dry

    Quote Originally Posted by Ackar View Post
    Utah's Great Salt Lake is also shrinking fast.
    Reminds me of the Salton Sea, on a much larger scale.

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    Re: Draining Arizona: Mining For Water In The Desert Leaves Residents' Wells Dry

    The Big Semiconductor Water Problem



    As I am writing this, Taiwan is suffering through one of its worst droughts in many years. The northern-western part - Taipei, New Taipei City - is generally fine. There are enough reservoirs.

    But other areas like Tainan, Kaohsiung, Taichung, and Hsinchu are having some issues. Their water infrastructure is not as resilient or their water demand is greater. There are reports in the media of TSMC budgeting for millions of dollars to truck water down to its fabs in Tainan.

    Ah, and TSMC along with Intel and a bunch of other chip companies are building fabs in Arizona. A land inundated with clean, fresh drinking water.

    The company - and the industry as a whole - has long had to deal with water usage issues at their facilities. And the problem is only going to get worse as we progress forward.

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    Re: Draining Arizona: Mining For Water In The Desert Leaves Residents' Wells Dry

    ahh yes build a fab in AZ a place known for having water.

    Of course they are doing it because the land is cheap and the taxes low. Of course the land is cheap because its a damn desert.

    Would make more sense to stick a fab up on the great lakes, Just toss a pipe out into the lake and plenty of water.
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    Re: Draining Arizona: Mining For Water In The Desert Leaves Residents' Wells Dry

    Draining Las Vegas: Here is who's using the most water in valley



    Top commercial and residential water users in Las Vegas metro area listed as Feds declare water shortage and continue predictions of lower levels at Lake Mead.

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    Re: Draining Arizona: Mining For Water In The Desert Leaves Residents' Wells Dry

    Lake Shasta, low water level, location of exposed tunnels and bridge from the air. Drought.


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    Re: Draining Arizona: Mining For Water In The Desert Leaves Residents' Wells Dry

    60 minutes did a great piece on the Colorado River issues, Its a complete clusterfuck. Apparently when they divided up the water rights they issued more water rights than the river could provide. Thing is for ages most places never used their share and now they want it. Some idiot city in Utah says they are going to run a pipe to take their share despite the fact lake Powell is too low already.

    Honestly if we had a functional federal government congress would pass a law that outright makes it illegal to do any non agricultural irrigation from any source in the entire southwest.

    No more lawns, golf courses, etc. Don't like it? Go the fuck to a place with rain if a front lawn and golf are your thing.
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  20. #40
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    Re: Draining Arizona: Mining For Water In The Desert Leaves Residents' Wells Dry

    North American Zoning laws are the root cause of so many environmental problems, it is so sad.
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