Reply With QuoteYeah, I remember my Dad was pretty excited, and they won. Don't think I remember the score or stats.Originally Posted by PPatty
Was he any good when you watched him?I'm pretty sure I remember watching him pitch live in Cincinnati as a young boy.
Which is why I have never really liked WAR for comparing overall greatest, just doesn't seem fair. The fact Ford, Koufax and Marichal are as low as they makes me feel that way even more.
'This world may be another planet's hell.'{Aldous Huxley}
'After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music.'{Aldous Huxley}
They're in the top 100, which still puts them among the very best of the best. As previously said, WAR isn't a perfect stat, and neither are WAR-based stats such as JAWS -- but if you know of anything better for an overall career comparison, I'd love to see it.
At the very least, WAR is good for measuring dominance. Babe Ruth may not necessarily be the best hitter of all-time, but he was surely the most dominant MLB player ever: over the course of his career, he was the best active player in the league by a larger margin than anyone else before or since. On the other hand, Gibson was great, but he wasn't that much better than his peers; he was "only" the best of a very successful bunch.
And there are times when WAR really does show all-time greatness, regardless of era, when viewed in context. Barry Bonds and Willie Mays are Nos. 4 and 5 on the career WAR list for all players, even though they had some amazing peers, which tells you how great they really were; Bonds and Mays were standouts year-after-year even against the likes of Mantle, Aaron, Snider, Jr. Griffey, Frank Thomas and A-Rod.
It makes the pitching on the 90's Braves look all the more impressive. Three of the top 40 all-time (#8, 28, 40) on one team at the same time, when the stat that measures how good they are is diminished by each others' presence?
To be honest, so would I. I know comparisons between decades, much less over several decades, is hard, too many things have changed, and without, say, Gibson being able to go head to head with Bonds, Trout, etc it's hard to picture what might have happened. I mean, rules have changed, ballparks have changed (a lot), players are (mostly) stronger overall, techniques have become more refined, and biggest of all there is a crap ton of data that can be used to determine tendencies and flaws.
I know there will always be arguments between generations of who was better, and WAR does at least give some comparison, but, like you said, it's not the perfect stat, just another one used to create havoc.
'This world may be another planet's hell.'{Aldous Huxley}
'After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music.'{Aldous Huxley}
That's a case where that particular rotation really was that much better than everyone else's in that time period. Maddux, Glavine or Smoltz won the Cy Young every year but one from '91 through '98 (the exception was Pedro in '97). In 1993, their No. 4 (Steve Avery) would have been the ace of almost every other team in MLB. There hasn't been a comparable starting rotation in our lifetimes, though there have been a few outstanding-but-not-quite-the-Braves groups, such as the Yankee dynasty of the late '90s.
The most prolific base stealer of all-time until Rickey ripped it away from him:
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/l...er-dies-at-81/
You've likely seen his face on late-night poker ads: Mike Sexton, poker commentator and player, 72, prostate cancer:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/07/us/mi...rnd/index.html
Brock was one of my favorite players to watch as a kid, because I love stolen bases, and he was a master. After watching him a few times I knew that was how I wanted to play baseball, and luckily as I got older I got really fast and was able to steal bases a lot, which is what got me on my college team as a walk on. Unfortunately my hitting wasn't great, but it was good enough for me to get on enough to be effective as a lead off. So yeah, Lou Brock is still one of my many baseball heroes. RIP to a great player.
'This world may be another planet's hell.'{Aldous Huxley}
'After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music.'{Aldous Huxley}
Diana Rigg
sigh
she was awesome in Game of Thrones, still a powerhouse able to do more with a look and a sneer than nearly anyone else!
GoT, Avengers (no, not that Avengers), and a Bond girl.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/10/enter...ntl/index.html
WOAH! I thought she passed away 3 or 4 years ago!!!
Maaaaan. I did not know this.
Dude, she was a hot young lady, and kept that seering look and turned it into tenacity.
Gayle Sayers, running back Chicago Bears, but probably mostly remembered by most for the movie Brian's Song.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...nna-story.html
'This world may be another planet's hell.'{Aldous Huxley}
'After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music.'{Aldous Huxley}
*nods!*
Charisma is a LOT more than mere "looks"
He deserves to be remembered for his work on the field though. He was Barry Sanders before Barry Sanders:
Last edited by PPatty; November 19th, 2021 at 08:16 PM.
Oh definitely! Still holds the record for TDs in a game (6), TDs by a rookie (22) and youngest player inducted into the Hall of Fame. Pretty damn good resume there.
'This world may be another planet's hell.'{Aldous Huxley}
'After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music.'{Aldous Huxley}
Now he can go head-to-head with Seaver again:
https://www.stltoday.com/sports/base...63f29fb4d.html
Last edited by PPatty; October 3rd, 2020 at 03:22 AM.
I saw it this morning, and was coming to see if anyone had posted. He was one of the fiercest players ever, and one of the greatest pitchers of all time.
'This world may be another planet's hell.'{Aldous Huxley}
'After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music.'{Aldous Huxley}
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