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Thread: Bill Nye says "the planet's on f****ing fire" and we need to "grow the f*** up"

  1. #21
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    Re: Bill Nye says "the planet's on f****ing fire" and we need to "grow the f*** up"

    Quote Originally Posted by Deabn View Post
    And you apply this logic to ChaosL01 and not Bill Nye why? Did you mistake him for a climate scientist? Are you star struck?
    First, Bill Nye does have an advanced degree in science. Not climatology, but he's still a few steps ahead of most people. Second, he is just presenting the position of the experts to the people. He is not claiming his own research or his own opinion, but the opinion of thousands of experts. Your argument is the same as questioning the information coming from your Algebra teacher because they didn't do any of the research on Algebra. So the logic applies because ChaosL01 is trying to refute the consensus of the scientific community and he is trying to do it without any formal background or evidence.

  2. #22
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    Re: Bill Nye says "the planet's on f****ing fire" and we need to "grow the f*** up"

    Quote Originally Posted by KelanNaal View Post
    He’s saying that a religious person can use that exact argument against someone who denies the existence of God.
    True, but the religious person can't go to a library, University, or Google and find direct evidence to support their point. The problem with laymen trying to debate climate science is the subject is too big, with too many variables, and have too much evidence to keep straight. Most people don't have the time to keep up with all of it unless they make it their job to do so.

    Also, not believing in God won't end civilization.
    Last edited by Dramadon; May 15th, 2019 at 02:45 PM.

  3. #23
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    Re: Bill Nye says "the planet's on f****ing fire" and we need to "grow the f*** up"

    Quote Originally Posted by PPatty View Post
    Calling the other side a bunch of assholes isn't the change you need.

    You win the argument by rendering it moot. Much of the opposition to doing anything about climate change is rooted in money. You will never convince those folks to go against their own economic interest for some greater good in the future — Gordon Gekko wasn't wrong about human motivation.

    So make it worth their while. If you give them emissions-free alternatives that are cheaper (up front and in the long run) and more convenient than fossil fuels, they will go for it. If you don't, they won't, no matter how hot it gets, no matter how many more storms and blizzards appear.

    And cheaper doesn't mean "government-subsidized so it looks cheaper," it means actually cheaper at the source. Installing and maintaining a renewable-energy system in a home, office, farm or factory should cost less than it does for a furnace and electric power lines. Buying and maintaining an electric vehicle should cost less than a fossil-fuel one, especially since the electric car actually has fewer parts. Recharging it should cost much less than refueling on gasoline.
    Well, you aren't wrong about profit motive. Most of the time, it takes government to create an artificial incentive for something (at least at the scale this is) before the private market is mature enough to make it self-sustaining. Unfortunately, for alternative energy, it will take a 20 year, focused process to transition and we can't keep an administration that would support this in office long enough to make it happen. Especially when we elect an asshole that seems to want to make the world as polluted as possible and puts people in charge of the EPA that believe "Modern air is a little too clean for optimum health".

  4. #24
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    Re: Bill Nye says "the planet's on f****ing fire" and we need to "grow the f*** up"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dramadon View Post
    Well, you aren't wrong about profit motive. Most of the time, it takes government to create an artificial incentive for something (at least at the scale this is) before the private market is mature enough to make it self-sustaining.
    John Rockefeller didn't need government subsidies to convince people to adopt oil (yes, the fossil-fuel industry currently gets tax breaks that it certainly should not, but that didn't start until 1916, when oil was already firmly entrenched as the fuel of choice for the industrial world). Renewables should not either -- the industry should make it on its own, regardless of the tax code. If it can't do that, then tough shit, emissions are going to keep going until fossil fuels run out.

  5. #25
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    Re: Bill Nye says "the planet's on f****ing fire" and we need to "grow the f*** up"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dramadon View Post
    First, Bill Nye does have an advanced degree in science. Not climatology, but he's still a few steps ahead of most people. Second, he is just presenting the position of the experts to the people. He is not claiming his own research or his own opinion, but the opinion of thousands of experts. Your argument is the same as questioning the information coming from your Algebra teacher because they didn't do any of the research on Algebra. So the logic applies because ChaosL01 is trying to refute the consensus of the scientific community and he is trying to do it without any formal background or evidence.
    I have not refuted the evidence,I have indeed supported climate change is happening. I profess ignorance of whether we are the cause of the change or can even influence a change back at this point. I am willing to further share my confusion over what can or should be done if we can influence the change in climate. The problem is the solution as PPatty stated has to be acceptable to the majority.

    I have run across flawed studies which have made claims of no change in temps on one side(and dismissed them) to Falsely erroneous Temp data listed in studies on the other. According to few such studies Orlando/Lakeland/Tampa had never had a Summer temp above 80 F in 1980's decade. Weird, I remember being grateful to sit in cool AC in the summer midday because the outside temp was 95-99 F. With the weather channel displaying it for me on cable TV. Or channel 13 news telling me the highs in the 90's for the day on the various news cycles. And I have dismissed the alarmist reports stating we would all be under water by 2015 -2020 in the late 80's early 90's.

    This is very much like when I consult doctors about medical procedure normally done on kids for myself, Half say it should be performed the other half say it should not.A lot(but not all) of insurance backed doctors tend to be in Don't do it group. And the independents tend to be on the other side to do it. Each have had very rational reasons for supporting their positions. After I reviewed all available information concerning the procedure, opinions, and benefit of hindsight I now know which option and course to pursue.But it did take this long to sift the conflicting data.

    Do I keep up on every study? no, as you stated I don't have time. but between everything, I have checked I'm still at inconclusive not at climate change, but why and what can be done about?
    Last edited by ChaosL01; May 15th, 2019 at 03:29 PM.
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  6. #26
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    Re: Bill Nye says "the planet's on f****ing fire" and we need to "grow the f*** up"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dramadon
    Your argument is the same as questioning the information coming from your Algebra teacher because they didn't...
    Once again my argument is that the judgment of non-experts matters because they are required to make decisions which affect them and their community.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dramadon
    True, but the religious person can't go to a library, University, or Google and find direct evidence to support their point. The problem with laymen trying to debate climate science is the subject is too big, with too many variables, and have too much evidence to keep straight. Most people don't have the time to keep up with all of it unless they make it their job to do so.

    Also, not believing in God won't end civilization.
    Religion is also a subject that is too large to keep straight without dedicated study. Have you delegated your judgment to the experts: to the preachers, the priests, and the clerics?

    I agree with many of the criticisms which are directed towards both the climate skeptics and the vaccine skeptics. But their judgment matters, and delegating to the experts has its own pitfalls.

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    Re: Bill Nye says "the planet's on f****ing fire" and we need to "grow the f*** up"

    Quote Originally Posted by Deabn View Post
    Once again my argument is that the judgment of non-experts matters because they are required to make decisions which affect them and their community.


    Religion is also a subject that is too large to keep straight without dedicated study. Have you delegated your judgment to the experts: to the preachers, the priests, and the clerics?

    I agree with many of the criticisms which are directed towards both the climate skeptics and the vaccine skeptics. But their judgment matters, and delegating to the experts has its own pitfalls.
    If those people making the decisions are basing those decisions off the information provided by the experts that do the research then the system works the way it is supposed to. If those people start thinking their opinion is more important then that's when it starts to break down.

    If I have a question about religious things I absolutely will go to a pastor, cleric, father, etc. I won't ask them about climate science though. And again, as long as people like you give ignorant fools consideration we will never solve this problem. You give them power by thinking that their opinion somehow should be weighed on the same level and given the same consideration as an expert in the field and provide them a platform. You legitimize their uninformed opinion and unwittingly (or maybe intentionally) undermine the scientific position when they should be laughed off the stage. There is no "uninformed opinion review" step in the scientific method.
    Last edited by Dramadon; May 15th, 2019 at 04:36 PM.

  8. #28
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    Re: Bill Nye says "the planet's on f****ing fire" and we need to "grow the f*** up"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dramadon View Post
    thinking that their opinion somehow should be weighed on the same level and given the same consideration as an expert in the field
    What a ridiculous thing for you to imagine coming out of my mouth.

  9. #29
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    Re: Bill Nye says "the planet's on f****ing fire" and we need to "grow the f*** up"

    There are a lot of things a person has to learn the hard way. How do you know what hot is until you burn yourself? Between this and automation, I don't think civilization is going to end, but I do think it's going to get a lot smaller.

    Quote Originally Posted by PPatty View Post
    Having a children's personality curse for laughs does nothing to advance an argument. But hey, enjoy the entertainment.
    This isn't even the first time he has done this. Some people just really like this kind of emotional appeal. I'm not sure it's going to convince anyone, but I'm also not sure anything will for that matter.

    For what it's worth, I agree about motivation and core human interests. You can't tell someone to do something, you have to engineer a scenario in which they will do it naturally and think it was their own idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dramadon View Post
    Also, not believing in God won't end civilization.
    I got a good laugh out of this. The extremely religious people attempting to dictate policy right now would disagree with you.

    Belief is a hard thing to argue about, whether you are talking about religion or climate change. Once someone has chosen to believe something, it can be very hard to change their mind.

  10. #30
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    Re: Bill Nye says "the planet's on f****ing fire" and we need to "grow the f*** up"

    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosL01 View Post
    I have run across flawed studies which have made claims of no change in temps on one side(and dismissed them) to Falsely erroneous Temp data listed in studies on the other. According to few such studies Orlando/Lakeland/Tampa had never had a Summer temp above 80 F in 1980's decade. Weird, I remember being grateful to sit in cool AC in the summer midday because the outside temp was 95-99 F. With the weather channel displaying it for me on cable TV. Or channel 13 news telling me the highs in the 90's for the day on the various news cycles. And I have dismissed the alarmist reports stating we would all be under water by 2015 -2020 in the late 80's early 90's.
    I would really like to see a link to any one of these studies.

    I highly suspect you are mis-remembering, mischaracterizing, or misunderstanding some or all of them.

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    Re: Bill Nye says "the planet's on f****ing fire" and we need to "grow the f*** up"

    Where in the Bible, Torah or whatever, doe sit tell you how to make a computer?
    or process steel from iron ore?
    or make a steam engine?

    Faith has nothing to do with how the universe operates.
    Religion is NOT "faith" and is mostly a load of horsehit con-job and folk should realize that LONG ago.

    I'm sceptical as hell about the reliability and problems with vaccines, but I know they still mostly damn well do work and save millions of lives each year (see opioid crisis for another view on such things, morphine is an enormous saver of lives...Human bullshit though has repeatedly spiralled it and synthetic opioids into a monster killer and the worst hasn't been the criminals but the government and pharma corps/corrupt or stupid doctors)

    it's the folk who try to expose problems, or bring something seriously "new" or changing to the System that get attacked, which has been the case for Climate Change for decades.
    Very true saying:
    "If you want to make enemies, try to change something!"
    the "system" always becomes "inbred", closeted, protectionist, corrupt and dangerous, even murderous over time...be it religious, government, bureaucracy and even "Science", alas it's a "Human" problem

    Sure, some folk will be ratbags and seeing a way to make money/living/con game out of Climate Change, but the basic facts are inescapable and most researchers are honest
    the System though is not honest though and thus what actually gets funded, published etc is never as reliable...coal/oil lobbyists will spend money making sure Universities etc would tend to not fund anti-pollution groups, or subvert them, see "Science Media Centre" in the UK for how Big Business corrupts Science

    Ice will melt a lot faster than was claimed back in early 1989s, that was fucking OBVIOUS
    back then I saw the projected charts for ice melt and knew right of it was utter rubbish...ice doesn't, cannot melt to produce a nice smooth straight frikkin line on a graph! jeesh. Surface area/volume ratio to begin with proves that's impossible.
    Said that to folk long time ago back on the Mage Tower and earlier Graffe's and ha! I was right

    Very unlikely we could see a melt of say, the Eastern Antarctic by end of this century, but certainly a lot of the Western might and the North Pole will be ice free....though it's such a colossal, chaotic series of related systems that increasing energy in the atmosphere can cause all kinds of things we can't predict.
    Very much a cause of firing a bunch of cannons straight up in the air and staying standing out in the open next to 'em

    one of my concerns is the way plastic and other rubbish in colossal amounts floating in the oceans serves now as an ideal breeding ground for algae. Thus you can end up with more ocean heat absorption and worse, huge areas of dead anoxic waters pumping out millions of tons of methane and other chemicals which will increase Global Warming.


    note also the way Big Business has torpedoed Renewable energy again and again, with the connivance of corrupt bureaucrats/politicians,

  12. #32
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    Re: Bill Nye says "the planet's on f****ing fire" and we need to "grow the f*** up"

    No it was a hit piece on how it would never snow in Florida again among other dire predictions.(which it did a few year years later) , New York was going to resemble Skara Brae with permanent winter. Coastal lands would be flooded out of existence and intense Tropical storm activity. on the last page of their linked "study" they had a lot of major cities graphed to average summer temps between decades (I only paid attention to Tampa, FL line) and then of course current which included mid 90's and future witch pushed in to the low 100's. It delayed me from believing in the global warming theory, I never believed in the global cooling when I was in school either. I did try to search for it but seems to have disappeared. I never took it too seriously as a study but did show me that the Global warming side wasn't above manipulating numbers.

    I revisited my position about 6 years and Yes I believe the earth is warming, But unsure of why or if we can do anything about it(still sifting through the experts opinions).
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  13. #33

    Re: Bill Nye says "the planet's on f****ing fire" and we need to "grow the f*** up"

    has Florida ever had snow? other than the frozen condensation from the air when a rocket vents some cryogenic fuel.
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  14. #34
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    Re: Bill Nye says "the planet's on f****ing fire" and we need to "grow the f*** up"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dramadon View Post
    And again, as long as people like you give ignorant fools consideration we will never solve this problem ... You legitimize their uninformed opinion and unwittingly (or maybe intentionally) undermine the scientific position when they should be laughed off the stage.
    This I do find to be a more interesting criticism. There are a lot of harmful and apparently unfounded views going around these days, and giving them a platform does seem to lead to their growth. Unfortunately people like me ignoring them seems to lead to their growth too.

    I agree with your prior call for a change in tactics, but laughing people off the stage seems to already be widely deployed.

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    Re: Bill Nye says "the planet's on f****ing fire" and we need to "grow the f*** up"

    Quote Originally Posted by FilanFyretracker View Post
    has Florida ever had snow? other than the frozen condensation from the air when a rocket vents some cryogenic fuel.
    actually, yes
    January 3, 2018: It snowed in Florida
    https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/s...wed-in-florida

    The last time it snowed in Orlando - actual snow - was January 19, 1977. ... That's because snow is extremely rare in Florida, must less here in Orlando. There are some manmade exceptions. During the Christmas season, Disney World and some other places will create artificial snow.

    This last one in 2018 almost got south enough it stopped 1 county north of what is considered central Florida. Snow flakes were falling from the clouds in Central Florida but melted as it hit the ground so it didn't count as "snow". The same happened in 1988 or 89.
    Last edited by ChaosL01; May 16th, 2019 at 11:49 AM.
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  16. #36
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    Re: Bill Nye says "the planet's on f****ing fire" and we need to "grow the f*** up"

    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosL01 View Post
    No it was a hit piece on how it would never snow in Florida again among other dire predictions.(which it did a few year years later) , New York was going to resemble Skara Brae with permanent winter. Coastal lands would be flooded out of existence and intense Tropical storm activity. on the last page of their linked "study" they had a lot of major cities graphed to average summer temps between decades (I only paid attention to Tampa, FL line) and then of course current which included mid 90's and future witch pushed in to the low 100's. It delayed me from believing in the global warming theory, I never believed in the global cooling when I was in school either. I did try to search for it but seems to have disappeared. I never took it too seriously as a study but did show me that the Global warming side wasn't above manipulating numbers.
    That sounds like an article detailing the worst case scenario outcomes.

    If it was an above-board article, it would have stated that clearly (you may have overlooked that disclaimer). If it did not, then it was not a legitimate study - so why would you fault the entire Global warming "side" for an article (researchers don't write articles, they publish studies) written by a dishonest hack?

    Also, articles *never* disappear. Not if they were published online.

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    Re: Bill Nye says "the planet's on f****ing fire" and we need to "grow the f*** up"

    Zarbonius
    not exactly true.
    those with power can and do get things...kinda hushed.
    usually by threatening legal action, or buying out servers/businesses, or hiring "consultants" who mess with Wikipedia entries etc (remember that issue few years ago with Wiki?)

    so you have to do a fair job to find the items again, some few though ARE "gone".
    more matter of manipulation, than "Ivan the Terrible"

  18. #38
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    Re: Bill Nye says "the planet's on f****ing fire" and we need to "grow the f*** up"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarbonius View Post
    why would you fault the entire Global warming "side" for an article (researchers don't write articles, they publish studies) written by a dishonest hack?
    Yeah, that was the first question that came to my mind.
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    Re: Bill Nye says "the planet's on f****ing fire" and we need to "grow the f*** up"

    First I can't find the study or article, I suspect it's not a conspiracy. Just lost to time and the pile of articles written since. Possibly the server was lost.

    Having come out of the global cooling Doom prophesy I was to say the least skeptical of AL gore's version the world is going to burn. I'm not saying this totality turned me away but to see this obvious dishonesty published(maybe, i was a bit naive a the time to believing such items would be actually vetted from "news sites").Between that and more immediate concerns of living life I didn't revist until a few years ago and realized the experts saying our planet is warm seem to be more reliable than the (oil paid)other experts shouting it isn't.
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    Re: Bill Nye says "the planet's on f****ing fire" and we need to "grow the f*** up"

    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosL01 View Post
    First I can't find the study or article, I suspect it's not a conspiracy. Just lost to time and the pile of articles written since. Possibly the server was lost.
    So despite the thousands of published studies by actual scientists proving man-made climate change is real, you remain skeptical because of a blog you think you remember that seems to have been lost in the Internet where nothing dies.

    Seems legit.
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