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Thread: The MAGA Teenager Who Harassed a Native American Veteran

  1. #21
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    Re: The MAGA Teenager Who Harassed a Native American Veteran

    No harassment took place. The story is: there is no story. This was a public space. Both parties were exercising first amendment rights. The small group of agitators were being provocative. The MAGA hat kids were rebuking them in the manner of teenagers. Energy was running high (though not violently so). The Native American drummer moved to intervene and calm the crowd to ensure no further escalation happened. There's an entertaining moment at one point where the kids are chanting but cannot maintain the rhythm (something that always irritated me when I was that age), but the drummer is rock solid and sticks to the beat, and the boys wind up chanting in time with the drum. The agitators are quite amused at that point.

    No one was ever in any real danger. The Native perceived a threat due to the rising confrontational energy of the crowd and made a wise move placing himself in between the two factions, however it's exceedingly unlikely that this would have escalated into anything serious. The agitators were clearly mature, very much in control of themselves, and not the least bit concerned about the large group of hecklers. The kids themselves made no actual threatening moves toward anyone and were clearly not going to.

    While the boy who stood his ground claims to have been trying to calm the situation, I think that's a half-truth at best. Far more likely is that he was simply refusing to back down and be herded like a sheep by the Native with the drum. He did exactly what anyone should do in that situation. He maintained his dignity and stood his ground without making any kind of taunt or threatening gesture of any kind. The boy was under no obligation whatsoever to give ground to the Native in that situation.

    And that's it. The story is: it's fucking nothing. As is usually the case when some kind of bullshit like this blows up. Anyone joining in to dogpile on either party should be fucking ashamed of themselves. They should stay off twitter and avoid the news for at least 6 months.

  2. #22
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    Re: The MAGA Teenager Who Harassed a Native American Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by Dramadon View Post
    I think what pisses me off about this whole thing is the fact that NOBODY is putting the blame for this whole thing where it belongs. Maybe it's my background in education speaking but what the fuck were the adult shaperones doing? They should have had those kids on a bus and out of there the second things started getting loud. If this is some sick and twisted way for the adults to push some racist message and using the kids as pawns to do this, shame on them. They may have potentially ruined these kids lives over it. I think this speaks volumes about the leadership at this school that they would even allow for this possibility to happen. Kids are douchebags and stupid. No shit. It's the adults job to try and protect them (within reason) from making stupid mistakes like this. Or maybe they don't think it's a mistake and in 3 years when they turn 18 they will want to go be a racist asshole. That's their decision then. When they become an adult.

    If the Catholic Church hasn't sent somebody to that Diocese to audit and clean house yet then they need to immediately. Given some of the things I've read about this school it is long overdue and certainly isn't teaching the things that the Pope in the Vatican is teaching these days.
    They're old enough that they shouldn't need constant adult supervision. The fact that only one boy (barely) had the courage to stand his ground suggests to me that they probably do spend a lot of time being treated like children by teachers much like yourself anyway. It's a terrible attitude that only makes it harder for young boys to learn important lessons about how to behave as a mature and confident man. That Native American drummer gave those boys a lesson in adult masculinity that no artificially empowered school-appointed chaperone would ever be able do even half as effectively.

  3. #23
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    Re: The MAGA Teenager Who Harassed a Native American Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by Goladus View Post
    They're old enough that they shouldn't need constant adult supervision. The fact that only one boy (barely) had the courage to stand his ground suggests to me that they probably do spend a lot of time being treated like children by teachers much like yourself anyway. It's a terrible attitude that only makes it harder for young boys to learn important lessons about how to behave as a mature and confident man. That Native American drummer gave those boys a lesson in adult masculinity that no artificially empowered school-appointed chaperone would ever be able do even half as effectively.
    A valid viewpoint. However, this wasn't the difference between "Should I shoot the guy or not shoot the guy?" It was a far more complex situation that those students weren't anywhere close to being prepared to handle. I'm not trying to defend their behavior at all, I just think it's a bit harsh to crucify them and potentially do life-long harm for standing around looking and acting like complete douchebags. Especially since I doubt any of them even considered the long term consequences of it. Now, if those kids turn 18 and want to be asshole douchebags, it's open season. It was the job of the chaperones to prevent that situation. However, judging from what I've read and seen about this school, I'm betting the chaperones were counting on a confrontation like this.

  4. #24

    Re: The MAGA Teenager Who Harassed a Native American Veteran

    I am curious what the educational purpose of the trip even was. Was it for a civics class to teach on things like the right to protest?

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    Re: The MAGA Teenager Who Harassed a Native American Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by Goladus View Post
    Anyone joining in to dogpile on either party should be fucking ashamed of themselves. They should stay off twitter and avoid the news for at least 6 months.
    Yeah, but Trump can't help himself.

  6. #26

    Re: The MAGA Teenager Who Harassed a Native American Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by FilanFyretracker View Post
    I am curious what the educational purpose of the trip even was. Was it for a civics class to teach on things like the right to protest?
    It was a Catholic school there to protest abortion. Catholic schools from all over the country bussed their students there. My kids school was supposed to go as well but cancelled last minute due to concerns about the weather.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_...ashington,_D.C.)

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    Re: The MAGA Teenager Who Harassed a Native American Veteran

    Religious schools that want to continue bussing kids from "all over the country" perhaps should have their tax exemption revoked as a result of their political activities (using minors as propaganda/backdrops for their motives), and we can talk about "Mr. Smug But I Don't Owe Anyone An Apology" and other uses of the MAGA hat another day????

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    Re: The MAGA Teenager Who Harassed a Native American Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by Gidizlo View Post
    Religious schools that want to continue bussing kids from "all over the country" perhaps should have their tax exemption revoked as a result of their political activities
    Why?

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    Re: The MAGA Teenager Who Harassed a Native American Veteran

    Since we live in the Age of Whataboutism, what about Catholic Schools allow them to organize and transport students across country to basically, on the face of it, lobby against what should be the settled law of the land for the past 40 years?

    What is about public schools that they are prohibited from any activity that might circuitously or pretzel-logic twistings prevent them from busing public education students for 'political topic of the day'? Hell, kids were threatened with suspensions or expulsions instead for participating in any form of walkout related to the Walk For Our Lives gun control movement.

    Why is the rest of society's young required to remain on the sidelines while religious affiliates conduct all sorts of quackery and turn people into Single-Issue Voters that have rewarded us with the unholy marriage of the GOP and religious right/evangelicals?

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    Re: The MAGA Teenager Who Harassed a Native American Veteran

    And no, this is not a logic-driven or well researched position I'm arguing here. Just fed up and waiting SMoD to be elected in 2020 already. Or Cthulhu or the FSM.

  11. #31
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    Re: The MAGA Teenager Who Harassed a Native American Veteran

    I would guess it was because they were private schools and not subject to the same bureaucracy as public schools. Public schools are always walking the razor's edge of having one group or another bitch at them relentlessly. Administrators have sticks jammed into their butts in order to stay mildly functional.

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    Re: The MAGA Teenager Who Harassed a Native American Veteran

    They are walking a damn fine line re: their 501(c)(3) status.

    As religious organizations, they have limitations on political activity. My quick read is this: No lobbying on behalf of or against a particular candidate or campaign (not sure what that is to mean, IIRC, but meh). But this constant bullshit of joining marches against abortion, and that is what they are, anti-choice not pro-life, sure feels like lobbying to me. But it's not for (or against) a particular candidate or campaign, so it's okey dokey.

    Why, since they're all "But mah reeligiun!"

    If they are pro-life, what are they doing to improve life for those currently here? Nada - they are anti-choice.

    And yes, I acknowledge that the Civil Rights Movement had a lot of churches organizing it. They were fighting injustice and the oppression of people's rights and ability to make choices. This? This is to deny choice. Your religion tells you abortion equals murder? Fine, don't get one. But don't try to criminalize for others. PEOPLE DO NOT GET ABORTIONS DUE TO SLUTTY BEHAVIOR (ONLY). I bet you more than one of these fine CATHOLIC boys are going to walk out on their HS sweethearts after knocking 'em up. Or ghost some one-night stands, etc.

  13. #33

    Re: The MAGA Teenager Who Harassed a Native American Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by Gidizlo View Post
    If they are pro-life, what are they doing to improve life for those currently here? Nada - they are anti-choice.
    Not sure if you realize that the Catholic Church is one of the largest charitable organizations on the planet. Free schools, soup kitchens, housing for the poor, orphanages. So yea, pretty much nothing to improve anyone's lives.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gidizlo View Post
    They were fighting injustice .... Your religion tells you abortion equals murder? Fine, don't get one. But don't try to criminalize for others.
    So I shouldn't murder anyone because my faith forbids it but I should be fine with you murdering someone? OK makes perfect sense to me.

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    Re: The MAGA Teenager Who Harassed a Native American Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by Utilaelr View Post
    Not sure if you realize that the Catholic Church is one of the largest charitable organizations on the planet. Free schools, soup kitchens, housing for the poor, orphanages. So yea, pretty much nothing to improve anyone's lives.



    So I shouldn't murder anyone because my faith forbids it but I should be fine with you murdering someone? OK makes perfect sense to me.
    1) I have never heard of any Catholic school that was free. It's cheaper if you are catholic, but not free.

    2) If murder were legal, our civilization couldn't exist. Abortion has been legal for decades and the biggest contribution you could say it has to the downfall of our civilization is it has caused millions of evangelical Christians to completely ignore the 3 time adultering sexual predator they put in the White House who is actively undermining the strength and security of the country.

  15. #35

    Re: The MAGA Teenager Who Harassed a Native American Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by Dramadon View Post
    1) I have never heard of any Catholic school that was free. It's cheaper if you are catholic, but not free.
    Based on need and ability to pay they are a lot of children that get an education for free in the states at Catholic schools. In 3rd world countries there are schools that are run free of charge to the parents of the kids that attend.

    No clue what the heck you are on about in point #2. I was defending their right to protest something they feel is unjust.

  16. #36
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    Re: The MAGA Teenager Who Harassed a Native American Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by Utilaelr View Post
    I was defending their right to protest something they feel is unjust.
    Are you defending the right of individual members of a religion to protest, or the right of the religious organization itself to engage in such protests (and do you see any difference between the two)?

  17. #37

    Re: The MAGA Teenager Who Harassed a Native American Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarbonius View Post
    Are you defending the right of individual members of a religion to protest, or the right of the religious organization itself to engage in such protests (and do you see any difference between the two)?
    Individuals for sure. An organization....not so sure about that one, its a grey area for sure. Seemed like people were conflating individuals protesting abortion to some sort of religious hypocrisy so therefore they should not even protest.

    At my kids school they were planning on having a bus drive down but it was for any families that chose to go to protest, and you had to chaperone your own kids. It wasn't the entire school being mandated to go there. The religious school shutting down and mandating everyone to go? That's walking a pretty fine line between a religious organization and a political one. I'm honestly not sure which is the case for the school we are talking about here.

    That said there is a long history of other faiths being very politically active, for example the protests against racial injustices in the south like Gidizlo was saying. Political preaching from the pulpit....which doesn't really happen in Catholicism, at least not overtly.

  18. #38
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    Re: The MAGA Teenager Who Harassed a Native American Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by Utilaelr View Post
    Individuals for sure. An organization....not so sure about that one, its a grey area for sure. Seemed like people were conflating individuals protesting abortion to some sort of religious hypocrisy so therefore they should not even protest.

    At my kids school they were planning on having a bus drive down but it was for any families that chose to go to protest, and you had to chaperone your own kids. It wasn't the entire school being mandated to go there. The religious school shutting down and mandating everyone to go? That's walking a pretty fine line between a religious organization and a political one. I'm honestly not sure which is the case for the school we are talking about here.
    .
    I think if it's a problem when the religious school organizes a mandatory trip that everyone must attend, it's a problem if they organize a trip that only some attend.

    The problem is with them organizing the trip - they are then directing and coordinating what is effectively political speech (lawyers may disagree with me).

    Now if it were organised by a parents' association, that's probably fine..

  19. #39

    Re: The MAGA Teenager Who Harassed a Native American Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarbonius View Post
    I think if it's a problem when the religious school organizes a mandatory trip that everyone must attend, it's a problem if they organize a trip that only some attend.

    The problem is with them organizing the trip - they are then directing and coordinating what is effectively political speech (lawyers may disagree with me).

    Now if it were organised by a parents' association, that's probably fine..
    Was it a problem during the civil rights movement?

    I need to think about it some more to see how I feel about it being an organized thing that is mandatory for the entire school.

    It seems to me that you are thinking the CHURCH organizes these things across their parishes in some coordinated effort. These Catholic schools are small, local affairs where the parents are very involved in the running of the school. Its really not much more than parents working with the principal to get a bus. (again, I have no idea what this particular school did)
    If there was a carpooling effort by most of the school where parents and teachers were driving the cars would that be a similar issue for you? If the school allowed the parents to post on a bulletin board in the hallway that they were organizing a carpool down to DC would that be an issue?

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