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Thread: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

  1. #161
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    Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

    Quote Originally Posted by Deabn View Post
    Did you end up watching TLJ Goladus?
    No, still haven't seen it. I confess I'm not arguing the merits of the movie based on experience. But neither am I hearing anything that refutes the issues I've heard about (screwing up Luke's character, non-sequitor slapstick comedy, non-sensical plot, complete lack of context, Rey having an actual growth arc, Finn having a pointless subplot, etc.).

    Essentially I really don't like what I'm hearing about this movie and am not going to pay full theater price for it. I may watch it on video eventually.
    Last edited by Goladus; January 13th, 2018 at 12:30 PM.

  2. #162

    Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

    tbh if youhave not seen it yet maybe you should. Seems like your opinion is purely based on youtubers and we know how dependable they are.
    "When you name your baby Jeeves...you've pretty much set up his career for life. You don't see many Hit Men, for example, named Jeeves. "Pardon me sir, but I must wack you now."
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  3. #163
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    Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

    Quote Originally Posted by Goladus View Post
    No, still haven't seen it. I confess I'm not arguing the merits of the movie based on experience. But neither am I hearing anything that refutes the issues I've heard about (screwing up Luke's character, non-sequitor slapstick comedy, non-sensical plot, complete lack of context, Rey having an actual growth arc, Finn actually becoming a meaningful character, etc.).

    Essentially I really don't like what I'm hearing about this movie and am not going to pay full theater price for it. I may watch it on video eventually.
    I wanted to double check because I would have been curious if seeing it changed your view and another poster seemed to have forgotten that you said hadn't seen it.

    Minor point back to TFA, I thought it was completely natural that Han and Leia's marriage failed; both because of their personalities and because of what happened to Ben.

  4. #164
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    Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

    Quote Originally Posted by FilanFyretracker View Post
    tbh if youhave not seen it yet maybe you should. Seems like your opinion is purely based on youtubers and we know how dependable they are.
    My assessment is based partly on reviews from youtubers whose tastes seem to align with mine and that clearly articulate the reasons why they didn't like it, and partly on my opinion on The Force Awakens.

    I thought TFA was weak and set a bad foundation for future movies. It seems to me that whatever pieces of a decent foundation Abrams did manage to introduce (eg mystery about Rey's parents) were ignored.

    If I do watch it and my opinion changes, I will be sure to update the thread and let you all know.

  5. #165
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    Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

    Quote Originally Posted by Deabn View Post
    Minor point back to TFA, I thought it was completely natural that Han and Leia's marriage failed; both because of their personalities and because of what happened to Ben.
    It was believable enough. I just thought it was a bad decision. You want originality in a movie how about portraying a marriage that stands the test of time? I didn't like that whole subplot.

  6. #166
    Ellsworth M. Toohey
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    Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

    Quote Originally Posted by FilanFyretracker View Post
    Seems like your opinion is purely based on youtubers and we know how dependable they are.
    How dependable are they?

  7. #167
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    Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

    This is largely a problem of preconceptions. If something isn't what you think it should be, you are disappointed. That doesn't make it bad. And whether or not you are ever able to appreciate it depends entirely on how much you are willing to bend.

    In a way, this movie asks a lot out of the viewer. They thoroughly encourage you to embrace your preconceptions before dashing them, over and over again and on purpose. It doesn't simply do what you expect it to, or even do something else with your knowledge. It tricks you and forces you to confront your own internal bias about what a Star Wars movie should be.

    I've said it before, but my only problem with this movie is that it's too long. It feels like a TV series plot crammed into a movie or something. A lot of the more nitpickier complaints could be leveled at any Star Wars movie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goladus View Post
    She was demonstrated to be a good, scrappy fighter with that bo staff thing. I would have bought it if she'd drawn the lightsaber and used it in a scrappy-but-awkward way to defend herself and escape from the injured Kylo Ren, rather than have a full-on duel where she performs like a trained Jedi and solidly defeats Kylo Ren (who stops appearing injured after the first few swings).
    I re-watched the movie recently and disagree with this. She is absolutely terrible with the lightsaber when she first picks it up and spends most of the fight running away and flailing wildly. Even Finn did better than she did. The perplexing thing about that scene is that once she meditates on the Force she is suddenly able to beat him. It feels deus ex machina.

    I agree that Kylo Ren felt more like a spoiled brat than a badass after that first movie, which was disappointing at the time. I think they make it work in the next movie though. You know what he is now and not what you want him to be.

    Finn also gets a lot more character development in the next movie. Though those scenes are largely responsible for why people are down on it. They think it keeps distracting from what they really want to see: Rey and Luke.


    P.S. For what it's worth I also agree with Delores on the representation and how it is handled. It isn't forced, it's completely appropriate, and if it weren't for foreknowledge of social trends and attitudes you wouldn't even notice.

  8. #168
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    Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

    I agree with most* of the TLJ criticisms Goladus has discussed. Although I did genuinely enjoy the movie I don't think it will be very re-watchable for me.

    edit: * Well, some important ones, at least.
    Last edited by Deabn; January 13th, 2018 at 12:51 PM.

  9. #169
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    Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

    Disney has also stated that they'll be pumping out a Starwars movie every year for the near future...

    That's another way to drive the fun out of a franchise.

  10. #170
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    Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

    Quote Originally Posted by Deabn View Post
    I agree with most* of the TLJ criticisms Goladus has discussed. Although I did genuinely enjoy the movie I don't think it will be very re-watchable for me.

    edit: * Well, some important ones, at least.
    I've actually heard some people say they liked it more the second time. That's part of where my preconceptions hypothesis comes from. The argument being they no longer had expectations to be disappointed by and so were able to accept it for what it actually was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ackar View Post
    Disney has also stated that they'll be pumping out a Starwars movie every year for the near future...

    That's another way to drive the fun out of a franchise.
    This occurred to me when trying to figure out why people were so down on what is probably one of the better Star Wars movies. Franchise fatigue is a very common thing in video games with yearly releases, so I figured people would get tired of Star Wars being crammed down their throat as well. But it's only been three cycles/years and people were really excited about this movie before it came out.

  11. #171

    Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ackar View Post
    Disney has also stated that they'll be pumping out a Starwars movie every year for the near future...

    That's another way to drive the fun out of a franchise.
    that I can agree on, It stops Star Wars from being a sort of treat to see another one in theaters to just being something that happens.
    "When you name your baby Jeeves...you've pretty much set up his career for life. You don't see many Hit Men, for example, named Jeeves. "Pardon me sir, but I must wack you now."
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  12. #172
    Ellsworth M. Toohey
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    Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ackar View Post
    Disney has also stated that they'll be pumping out a Starwars movie every year for the near future...

    That's another way to drive the fun out of a franchise.
    Quote Originally Posted by FilanFyretracker View Post
    that I can agree on, It stops Star Wars from being a sort of treat to see another one in theaters to just being something that happens.
    What's wrong with serial visual narratives? TV's been doing them since TV existed.

  13. #173
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    Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ackar
    Disney has also stated that they'll be pumping out a Starwars movie every year for the near future...

    That's another way to drive the fun out of a franchise.
    I'm OK with it so long as they alternate like they did with TFA / Rogue One / TLJ. I think Solo is coming up too soon, though - I would have rather it also be a December release. One Star Wars release, every December, sequels coming out every two years would be just right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goladus
    Why did you even take the time to notice and point out how much "inclusion" there was?
    Because it was something I noticed and something the women in the group I went with noticed and commented on outside the theatre. The picture of my group is in post #54. (My buddy's daughter made us all felt lightsabers to take into the movie, buddy's brother's common-law wife is taking the picture.) I thought it was cool, and it was something I hadn't seen commented on in the press prior to the film (although I did avoid reviews to avoid spoilers) so I thought others here might be interested in it. Like I said, there was none of the over-the-top "WE CAST A WOMAN HERE LOVE US" that you get from some movies, like they're doing women a favour by casting them, and no big speeches about feminism or whatever. They were just there, doing their jobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goladus
    Why didn't you just notice the characters and appreciate their quality?
    Like I said last response, most of this was background stuff, which is what made it remarkable. There's no "quality" to extras. But seeing a group of Rebels go out to fight and seeing they're not all guys is a welcome departure from the norm.

  14. #174
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    Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

    I'm really interested in the new trilogy being developed that's not supposed to have any connection to the current series. Part of the problem with these recent movies might just be the weight of expectations. Getting away from all of that just lets the movie be itself.

  15. #175
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    Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

    I re-watched the movie recently and disagree with this. She is absolutely terrible with the lightsaber when she first picks it up and spends most of the fight running away and flailing wildly. Even Finn did better than she did. The perplexing thing about that scene is that once she meditates on the Force she is suddenly able to beat him. It feels deus ex machina.
    Yea, exactly. It does absolutely nothing for the story to have Rey defeat Ren in that battle, meditation or not, apart for the fleeting of thrill seeing the heroine triumph over the bad guy. Fine for a standalone throwaway movie, bad if we're setting up the characters for an epic saga.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ackar View Post
    Disney has also stated that they'll be pumping out a Starwars movie every year for the near future...

    That's another way to drive the fun out of a franchise.
    True but Star Wars fans have been having new stories pumped out in non-movie form for many years, fans have proved very resilient. One reason I criticize TFA and evaluate the criticism of TLJ more closely is that it's the mainline series being sold as the official continuation of the original trilogy. That's how they're marketing it and thats how people are deciding to buy tickets.

    If Rian Johnson wants to do Postmodern Star Wars in an off-year movie, fine. If JJ Abrams wants to use Fan Fiction style in a Star Wars Tribute in a side story, why not?

    Unrelated, but I want to mention that I like JJ Abrams' Star Trek movies. Partly because I think Chris Pine's Kirk character is done really well and enjoyed the dynamic between him and Spock. But, I also totally agree with the fans who argue that it is not very "Star Trek." But, unlike Star Wars, Star Trek was intended for a television drama format. My favorite Trek movies are already not very idiomatic Star Trek (II, IV, and VI).

  16. #176
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    Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

    Quote Originally Posted by Goladus View Post
    My favorite Trek movies are already not very idiomatic Star Trek (II, IV, and VI).
    I heartily agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Star Trek: The Next Generation: All Good Things (series finale):
    Capt. Picard: I sincerely hope that this is the last time that I find myself here.

    Q: You just don't get it, do you, Jean-Luc? The trial never ends. We wanted to see if you had the ability to expand your mind and your horizons. And for one brief moment, you did.

    Capt. Picard: When I realized the paradox.

    Q: Exactly. For that one fraction of a second, you were open to options you had never considered. *That* is the exploration that awaits you. Not mapping stars and studying nebulae, but charting the unknown possibilities of existence.
    This is why all the Treks after First Contact (even Insurrection, and 09, to an extent) are so disappointing to me.

  17. #177
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    Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

    SOLO: DISNEY DROPS NO TRAILER BUT GIVES A SYNOPSIS FOR UPCOMING STAR WARS FILM...


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