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Thread: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

  1. #2041
    Ellsworth M. Toohey
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Merkus View Post
    I take issue with that characterization. It was far from "not anything".
    The guy investigating it said it wasn't anything. I'm inclined to take his word for it.

    As I said, the obstruction is another matter. But that was a self-fulfilling thing -- had there been no special counsel investigation to begin with, there would have been nothing to obstruct.

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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by PPatty View Post
    The guy investigating it said it wasn't anything. I'm inclined to take his word for it.
    No he didn't, but you carry on.

  3. #2043
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by PPatty View Post
    For starters, smoking-gun proof of an actual crime other than obstruction of a probe into something that turned out not to be anything.
    WTF are you talking about? There were THIRTY-FOUR indictments.
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by PPatty View Post
    The guy investigating it said it wasn't anything. I'm inclined to take his word for it.

    As I said, the obstruction is another matter. But that was a self-fulfilling thing -- had there been no special counsel investigation to begin with, there would have been nothing to obstruct.
    Ppatty hasn't read the Mueller report. 3 of the potential obstruction events occurred before Mueller was appointed.

  5. #2045
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Merkus View Post
    No he didn't
    Yes, he did:

    Quote Originally Posted by Page 2, Report On the Investigation Into Russian Interference In The 2016 Presidential Election, Vol. I, Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller III
    Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.
    Again -- the obstruction, as already noted, is a separate issue, although obviously one that has failed to move most members of the president's party. It's also an issue that was a product of the probe itself, as opposed to being the reason for the probe's existence in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerkahia View Post
    WTF are you talking about? There were THIRTY-FOUR indictments.
    And none against the president. The question to which I was responding was Merkus' "What would it take to remove the president?" and not "Has Trump associated with shitty people?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarbonius View Post
    3 of the potential obstruction events occurred before Mueller was appointed.
    It's a distinction without a meaningful difference -- all of them were in response to investigations of possible collusion with the Russians.
    Last edited by PPatty; June 13th, 2019 at 07:06 PM.

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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by PPatty View Post

    And none against the president.
    Because he was working under a DOJ policy that you can't indict a sitting president. But I think you knew that.


    Mueller:

    “If we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so,”
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Goalposts: moved.

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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    On a separate note, obstruction of justice does not require an actual underlying crime to have occurred. So... not sure where you are going with this, but it ends badly for you.

    EDIT - Of course, if you're saying the public has no interest in something that is a crime in and of itself, well that's kind of an indictment of the voting public, isn't it?
    Last edited by Zarbonius; June 13th, 2019 at 07:31 PM.

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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by PPatty View Post
    bipartisan consensus
    What is this you speak of?

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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerkahia
    Because he was working under a DOJ policy that you can't indict a sitting president.
    The Mueller quote you cite was specifically in regards to obstruction. Mueller made it pretty clear that he didn't think there was any provable collusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarbonius View Post
    On a separate note, obstruction of justice does not require an actual underlying crime to have occurred. So... not sure where you are going with this, but it ends badly for you
    Do you think I'm arguing for my own views? As I said, I'm answering a question: What would it take to get the president removed from office? The TLDR answer: A lot more than the current obstruction allegations. Whether that's a good situation is a separate issue.
    Last edited by PPatty; June 13th, 2019 at 09:40 PM.

  11. #2051
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Merkus View Post
    Please read Mueller report.
    Great, so which part of the creative interperetive dance recital is apparently the 'smoking gun' this time around?
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninetoes View Post
    Reading is for beta cucks, and Schezar is an alpha, baby!
    Not sure whether it's cute or stalkerish that you spend so much of your almost nonexistent time here trying to go for personal insults against me. Amusing either way, though!
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/13/opini...art/index.html

    Sanders is out as of the end of the month. CNN had an article explaining how she failed as a press secretary. I really don't agree with it. The author ascribes duties to the position that I don't think actually exist. Sure, other press secretaries have been champions on the media's behalf much of the time, but the actual job is not to be the media's cheerleader.

    Sanders has taken a lot of abuse in her time as press secretary. She gets up and touts the president's cause and does damage control. She wrangles the media as best she can (and does it infinitely better than Spicer).

    Quote Originally Posted by first line of article
    Sarah Sanders said last December that when her role as White House press secretary ends, she hopes to be remembered as "honest and transparent."
    She is going to fall way short if that is her hope. She has touted the lies and defended the lies constantly. That is her job and she owned it.

    I hate the things she's done. I hate the lies. I hate the disinformation and treatment of the media. For what her actual job is I think the executed on it well.

    Her failing was the choice of using her skill set for the immoral purposes of Trump.
    If I wanted to be ignored I'd go to work.

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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Schezar View Post
    Great, so which part of the creative interperetive dance recital is apparently the 'smoking gun' this time around?
    Well, we call that the Constitution of the United States of America. Something else you'd benefit from reading.

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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Merkus View Post
    Well, we call that the Constitution of the United States of America. Something else you'd benefit from reading.
    The Constitution I have read. Kind of dry, but useful to know. If you'd be so kind as to point out what specific articles you think are relevant to the current allegations this could actually become a conversation at some point.
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Let's start with the oath of office and the 25th amendment.

    Edit: also Emoluments clause.
    Last edited by Merkus; June 14th, 2019 at 03:23 PM.

  17. #2057
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    yeah getting a paedophile off with a slap on the wrist is not the action of genuine conservative politicians
    it's the actions of foul scum
    any luck he and other scum will end up in General Population

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48967419

    US Labour Secretary Alex Acosta resigns over Epstein case

    US Labour Secretary Alex Acosta is resigning amid criticism of his brokering of a plea deal for financier Jeffrey Epstein in a child sex case.

    Mr Acosta, a former Florida prosecutor, made the announcement from the White House lawn on Friday with President Donald Trump stood by his side.

    Democrats had called for him to quit over his handling of the Epstein case.

    Mr Acosta defended the secretly-negotiated plea deal in a news conference only two days ago.

    Mr Acosta was the US Attorney in Miami in 2008 when he oversaw a non-prosecution deal against Epstein which allowed Epstein to serve 13 months in jail - with much of that time spent on work release at his Palm Beach office. Epstein's conduct has come into sharper focus since he was arrested and charged on Monday with sex trafficking underage girls.




    Mr Trump told reporters that he and Mr Acosta spoke on the phone earlier on Friday and that it was Mr Acosta's decision to step down.

    "This was him not me," Mr Trump said, adding that Mr Acosta was "a tremendous talent" who "went to Harvard" University. Earlier this week, Mr Trump told reporters that he felt badly for his labour secretary, but added that he did not know him personally before hiring him.

















    Media captionOn Tuesday, Mr Trump distanced himself from Jeffrey Epstein - and defended the role of Alex Acosta

    Mr Acosta told reporters: "I do not think it is right and fair... to have Epstein as the focus rather than the incredible economy that we have today".

    But he added: "It would be selfish for me to stay in this position and continue talking about a case that's 12 years old."

    Patrick Pizzella, the current labour deputy secretary, will become acting secretary when Mr Acosta officially steps down in one week, Mr Trump said.


    Analysis box by Anthony Zurcher, North America reporter
    On Wednesday, Alex Acosta gave a dispassionate, legalistic defence of his handling of the Jeffrey Epstein case, more than a decade ago. It wasn't enough to save his job. Given how quickly he departed after his performance, it wasn't even close.

    The former US attorney attempted to shift blame to state prosecutors and justify his decisions based on changing expectations in sex crimes cases. He never adequately explained why the circumstances at the time required that he offer such a lenient deal to Epstein or seal the damning details of the original indictment, instead of building a stronger case with further investigation.

    The Epstein case is a perfect storm of scandal and outrage. It mixes allegations of sex crimes with abuse of power and influence reaching into the highest corridors of US political and financial power.

    Now the toxic swirl has claimed its first high-profile name. Depending on how the story evolves, Mr Acosta may not be the last.

    With his departure, the number of temporary, "acting" Cabinet-level positions in the Trump administration now stands at four out of 11. The level of churn in his administration, whether through scandal, burn-out or presidential disfavour, is extraordinary.


    Presentational grey line

    Jeffrey Epstein, left, with Donald Trump at the current president's Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida in 1997Image copyright Getty Images
    Image caption
    Jeffrey Epstein, left, with Donald Trump at the current president's Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida in 1997

    Who is Jeffrey Epstein?

    The 66-year-old wealthy financier was charged with running a sex ring of underage girls after being arrested in New Jersey on Monday. He has long been surrounded by the rich and powerful, including President Trump, former President Bill Clinton and the UK's Prince Andrew.

    In a 2002 magazine profile, he said: "I invest in people, be it politics or science. It's what I do."

    On Friday, Mr Trump reiterated "I'm not a fan of Jeffrey Epstein" after earlier saying they had a falling out "12 or 15 years ago" with him. "I threw him out of a club. I didn't want anything to do with him," Mr Trump said about this former friend, as Mr Acosta stood at his side.

    "It shows you one thing. I have good taste," he added.


    Presentational grey line
    How did Acosta defend the deal?

    "I wanted to help them," Mr Acosta said of the 36 victims identified in the case against Epstein, during the hour-long press conference at the labour department on Wednesday.

    "That is why we intervened," he said. "And that's what the prosecutors of my office did - they insisted that he go to jail and put the world on notice that he was and is a sexual predator."

    Mr Acosta did not apologise for his handling of the case, saying only that the deal - which closed the FBI investigation into whether there were more victims or perpetrators - was a guarantee of jail time. He said that seeking a life sentence in a jury trial would have amounted to a "roll of the dice".
    ◾US labour secretary defends role in Epstein case
    ◾Jeffrey Epstein: What are his friends saying?
    ◾Who is Jeffrey Epstein?

    "We now have 12 years of knowledge and hindsight and we live in a very different world. Today's world treats victims very, very differently," he said.

    What was Epstein's punishment?

    The details of the agreement overseen by Mr Acosta were first revealed in a Miami Herald investigation earlier this year, with the newspaper saying that Epstein had been given "the deal of a lifetime".

    It allowed Epstein to avoid federal charges, and instead serve 13 months in jail after pleading guilty to state charges including solicitation of prostitution (including one charge involving a minor under the age of 18).

    Mr Acosta had been under pressure from Democrats to quit. A federal judge ruled that the deal violated the Crime Victims' Rights Act because Mr Acosta did not notify Epstein's victims of the arrangement.

    The deal is also being scrutinised by the Department of Justice

  18. #2058
    Mangina at large.
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Trump's spin is already in: I kicked him out of Mar-A-Lago so I'm good, look at other people that flew on his plane (Bill Clinton flew to Epstein's island once).

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