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Thread: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

  1. #1801
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Hicks Visit Raises Concern Over Potential President Trump Witness Tampering



    Donald Trump's conversations with White House staffers about his role in the 2016 Trump Tower meeting with Russians have raised concerns that he could be vulnerable to charges of witness tampering. Chuck Rosenberg, former U.S. attorney, and Frank Figliuzzi, former FBI assistant director of counterintelligence under Robert Mueller, discuss the legal ins and outs.

  2. #1802
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Yeah, I'd say he's "vulnerable to charges"... she was a witness and testified to the Senate (or House, can't remember) about the June meeting. She's spoken to Mueller at least once that we know of. Now that the June meeting has come up again this week, suddenly she's talking to Trump? Yeah, he's "vulnerable" all right.

    Maybe she was wearing a wire...

  3. #1803
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    In one sentence, Devin Nunes proved his critics right

    There’s one sentence in the audio recording obtained by MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow of Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) that, by itself, significantly undercuts any claims that he’s approaching investigations into President Trump with objectivity.

    Nunes was speaking at a fundraiser in Washington and addressed his role as the head of the House Intelligence Committee, a position that in recent months has put him at the forefront of investigations into Russian interference in the 2016 election.

    “If Sessions won’t unrecuse and Mueller won’t clear the president,” Nunes told the audience, “we’re the only ones, which is really the danger.”

    He refers first in that comment to Attorney General Jeff Sessions. Sessions recused himself from any investigations into Russia in March 2017, meaning that when Rod J. Rosenstein was confirmed as deputy attorney general the following month, Rosenstein assumed responsibility for all Russia-related issues. That included, to Trump’s consternation, the investigation into possible coordination between Trump’s campaign and the Russian effort to influence the election. Some have argued that Sessions could either unrecuse himself or say that the probe now under the control of special counsel Robert S. Mueller III is not covered by the recusal — allowing Sessions, if desired, to end the investigation. That seems to be what Nunes is getting at.

    Nunes also mentions Mueller directly, suggesting that another possible resolution of the investigation into Trump is that Mueller could simply clear the president of allegations of wrongdoing. Which is certainly one possible outcome.

    Consider, though, what’s missing from Nunes’s statement before the second comma. We’re the only ones who what? In context, the answer is “clear Trump.” Should Sessions not fire Mueller and Mueller not absolve Trump of guilt, Nunes and his allies could be the only ones in a position to do so.

    But if Mueller doesn’t clear Trump at the end of his investigation, there may be a good reason: Trump’s actions didn’t warrant his being cleared. Mueller is compiling evidence and talking to witnesses (potentially including Trump) to determine what happened in 2016 and who might be culpable for aiding the Russian effort. Mueller’s doing so with the acquiescence of the Department of Justice, which is to some extent predicated on the idea of investigating allegations to determine their validity. It’s very possible, probably even likely, that Trump himself won’t be shown to have worked with Russia. It’s also possible (though probably less likely) that he won’t be determined to have tried to obstruct the investigation itself. This is what Mueller’s investigation is meant to determine.

    That’s not how Nunes appears to be looking at it, though. Even setting aside that he almost certainly believes Trump should be cleared sooner rather than later — that is, not at some future point when Mueller’s work is done — he’s pretty clearly operating from a position that his job is to protect Trump, not to assess in good faith the allegations about how Russian interference unfolded.

    One could argue that Nunes’s objection is to Mueller’s probe itself, that he, like the president, believes that Mueller and his team are hopelessly biased against Trump. That would explain the burst of defenses of Trump that Nunes has embraced over the course of the year.

    But remember that those defenses didn’t start in 2018. About two months after Trump was inaugurated — over a month before Mueller came on the scene — it was Nunes who attempted to rationalize Trump’s tweets about how President Barack Obama had tapped phones in Trump Tower, an assertion quickly shown to not be true. Nunes was summoned to the White House complex where he was shown information that he later told the news media suggested improper behavior by Obama officials. This, like Nunes’s assertions about the warrant obtained by the FBI to surveil former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page, was generally understood to be a misrepresentation that was at best tangential to the central issue. The House Ethics Committee opened an investigation into whether Nunes had improperly shared classified information but closed the investigation after being unable to properly review classified information at the heart of their query.

    It is the mandate of the House Intelligence Committee to “provide vigilant legislative oversight over the intelligence activities of the United States.” This is the umbrella under which Nunes has continually sought cover, arguing that his criticisms of intelligence agencies and officials stem from his oversight efforts. But Nunes is hardly an impartial arbiter. He was one of five members of the House to be appointed to Trump’s transition team after the presidential election. (Another of the five was Rep. Chris Collins (R-N.Y.), who now faces felony charges in an insider-trading case.) From November 2016 to January 2017, Nunes’s role was to help make Trump’s presidency a success.

    It was an effort that apparently hasn’t yet ended.

    Nunes’s comments operated from the assumption that clearing Trump was the important thing to do. If that’s the case, if Trump being absolved of guilt is the most critical part of this entire process, then Nunes is largely right: The partisan Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee might be the only group willing to overtly put that goal above all others.

    And while one might argue that Nunes was simply making a pitch to Republican donors, telling them what they want to hear, we should remember that Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee have already demonstrated that absolving Trump is their most pressing goal.

    That word, “absolve,” made it into the headline of the New York Times’ report on the Republican majority’s report summarizing their investigation into Russian interference — an investigation that failed to include interviews with several prominent campaign officials and that came to the conclusion that the Russian interference effort wasn’t meant to aid Trump. Democrats on the panel and both Democrats and Republicans on the Senate side agreed with the intelligence community’s determination that the Russian effort was meant to do precisely that.

    Before the recording obtained by Maddow, it was hard to give Nunes the benefit of the doubt that he was fairly considering the Russia investigation. After hearing that one sentence, it’s about impossible.

  4. #1804
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    After 10 days, the Manafort prosecution rested their case.

    Then, the defense rested... without calling any witnesses

    Wow!

    https://twitter.com/politico/status/1029399419790282753

  5. #1805
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    A defense resting without calling any witnesses must be.... uncommon. I would think? I don't know.

    "I beg your pardon" LOL!
    Nerkahia
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    I can't imagine the defense actually believes that the prosecution has not given enough to sway the jury. The bits about failing to disclose the foreign accounts is pretty clear cut. The parade of loans based on lies seems pretty straight forward as well. The cross examination of Gates that came down to "you lie, cheat, and steal but you had an affair so everything else is null & void" and that seems pretty weak. Everyone is pretty indifferent to the whole affair thing given the parade of affairs from politicians and other famous people at this point.
    If I wanted to be ignored I'd go to work.

  7. #1807
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    The prevailing opinions that I'm seeing boils down to a couple of possibilities:

    1 - they didn't want to put Manafort on the stand, since he has another trial coming this fall. I guess they didn't want anything he said in this trial to be used against him in that one?

    2 - they are trying to show confidence in the fact that the State did not make their burden of proof. "We didn't even call any defense witnesses because their case is so weak". I don't buy that one - that's awful risky.

    I'm also wondering if they are hoping for a mistrial. There is apparently a defense motion for a mistrial to be declared due to juror misconduct, but I can't find details. Something happened last Friday and there were extended recesses as a result, but again, I can't find details.

    From what I've seen, the government presented a pretty strong case. I guess we'll see later this week.

  8. #1808
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    I will be SHOCKED if this doesn't all get tossed out on a technicality of some kind and then all of this becomes inadmissible in anything subsequent.
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  9. #1809
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Merrick ap'Milandra View Post
    I will be SHOCKED if this doesn't all get tossed out on a technicality of some kind and then all of this becomes inadmissible in anything subsequent.
    Could Paul Manafort Trial Be Heading To Mistrial Over A Juror? | MTP Daily | MSNBC


  10. #1810
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by VariaVespasa View Post
    Fair enough, and you dont need to remove it. However, it is near the end of my day so I'm gonna leave it till tomorrow to address.
    Still on your fact-finding mission, Varia?

  11. #1811
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Time for the next strategy...

    Rudy Giuliani: “Truth Isn’t Truth” | Morning Joe | MSNBC


  12. #1812
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Ackar View Post
    Time for the next strategy...

    I appreciate Giuliani telling the truth about the untruth of truth. It's a fundamental principle of marketers/promoters such as Trump.

    (Make no mistake, his business is marketing and promotion -- for the most part, he hadn't been much of a developer for years; he was just a walking brand who slapped his name on buildings and events, and appeared on TV)

    When you live and breathe promotion, then for you, truth is what you make it -- say something often enough, it becomes true. So in that sense, Giuliani is just articulating his client's worldview: There is no objective Truth. Trump operates on that worldview and his supporters eagerly embrace it. "I don't like this articulation of reality, therefore I reject it in favor of my truth."

    So thanks for the honesty, Rudy.

  13. #1813
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by PPatty View Post
    So thanks for the honesty, Rudy.
    I almost get what they are trying to say.
    Couple it with "alternative facts" which if spoken as "additional facts" would make some sense.

    They are dabbling with nuance.
    Which ticks me off.

    The party of absolutism, who courts their constituency with simple soundbites, suddenly wants to embrace nuance when it suits them.

  14. #1814
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Breaking news all over the place at the moment on two fronts. Manafort guilty on 8 counts, hung on 10. Cohen pleads guilty to 8 charges. That is a busy afternoon.


    Manafort guilty on 8 and hung on 10. I would suspect they believe him guilty but felt on the other charges that there was reasonable doubt. I'd love to know how they split. Was it 11-1, 10-2, etc? The next question in my mind is how will Trump react? Will he play it smart and wait for the other trial to conclude before doing a pardon or will he jump now and try and clear it? Will he wait until after the election? Etc....

    The Cohen bit is less interesting to me. We had mostly figured out there was shady stuff going on. The burning question on his stuff is does Cohen have something tangible on Trump to exchange or is he simply being a flashy showman and getting the government to give him a deal on nothing?
    If I wanted to be ignored I'd go to work.

  15. #1815
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Cohen's case is huge. He pleaded guilty to two counts of campaign finance violations in connection with and at the direction of Trump. This directly implicates Trump of felonies directly involved with his election campaign.

  16. #1816
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Do the Democrats control 2/3 of the Senate, and is there any realistic chance of them doing so after the midterms? No? Then it doesn't matter until the next presidential election at the earliest.

  17. #1817
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by PPatty View Post
    Do the Democrats control 2/3 of the Senate, and is there any realistic chance of them doing so after the midterms? No? Then it doesn't matter until the next presidential election at the earliest.
    Unless the evidence is so overwhelming that some of the Senate Republicans break party lines? Naw, crazy.

    Unless Senate Republicans fear their re-election would be in danger? More plausible, but so far agreed as unlikely.
    Nerkahia
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  18. #1818
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Now the question is, will Manafort and Cohen agree to cooperate with Mueller in order to get reduced sentencing?

    Cohen's lawyer was on Maddow tonight and said that Cohen is willing to talk to Mueller and tell him everything that Trump knew about the June 6th Russia meeting and about the computer hacking. That could be some serious information that could shave years off of Cohen's eventual sentence.

    But the fact is, the President has just been implicated by Cohen, under oath, in two campaign-finance related felonies. In a sane world, impeachment proceedings would be brought tomorrow morning... but of course this is not a sane world any more.

    Also, lost in all the news today, another Congressman (Turner - the 2nd sitting congressman to endorse Trump for president) was indicted on felony campaign violations too... I bet he feels really lucky to have his indictments come out today of all days - it will barely be noticed

  19. #1819
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    The first sitting Congressman to endorse Trump also got indicted this month.

  20. #1820
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    Re: Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn resigns over contacts with Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerkahia View Post
    Unless Senate Republicans fear their re-election would be in danger? More plausible, but so far agreed as unlikely.
    Back in 1974, almost every Republican on the House committee voting on Nixon's impeachment voted against it, even though there were actually recordings of the president engaged in a coverup, and even though it was pretty clear at that point that he was election poison. Even if some Republicans buck the party line, there is no chance of getting 67 votes to kick out the president unless there's video of him committing a violent crime. And even then, I wouldn't be so sure.

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