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Thread: Delores Mulva

  1. #1
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    Delores Mulva

    I come back for a minute to look around and I see that the same lousy moderator is doing the same lousy job of moderating. Just FYI, Delores Mulva, Rule #6 does not apply to Rants fora. Applying primary school rules to a bunch of adult-ass gamers is so namby-pamby that I picture you wearing a Barney Fife costume with velcro nursing patches over the nipples.

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    Re: Delores Mulva

    Creating a thread for the express purpose of calling someone out has always been against the rules, and has long been the most common reason for thread locks.
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    Re: Delores Mulva

    Firstly wb Ali however briefly. Why don't you set your mukluks by the cellophane and sit a spell!

    Second, mea culpa sort of. I never got the memo. I've spent quite a few hours now sifting through threads here to find this rule. Closest thing I found was a post I'd read here before where the poster (Maledict?) used the word threats meaning threads (evidently?) started to call some one out. First time I read it I saw the word threat and assumed the sentence was somehow about that. At the time that sentence made no sense, now it does. Amazingly I see the prohibition against making threats is no longer in the rules post.

    I have no recollection of this rule being mentioned and I recall violating it more than once in rants and never getting my thread locked. This is going way back to the original graffe site. Given Ali's assumption you were enforcing civility rather than what you site it makes me wonder if she knew the rule and just forgot it or ...

    Between threats no longer being mentioned and (to my recollection) calling someone out never being in any set of rules I ever saw spelled out ANYWHERE it makes me wonder what other rules lurk in the background for me to stub my toes on. Personally, I think the only rules for rants ought to be porn, real life stuff, threats and ddos ... well the threat of legal action too (which I think is silly but no reason to leave it out of rants really.) Where I come from crying, "I'll sue !!!" was the highest compliment we could pay one another.

    Rants ought to be a place we can safely blow off steam and if feelings get hurt too bad!

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    Re: Delores Mulva

    It's a locked thread, there is no punishment for having a locked thread as long as you don't go all Meta with it. That's also why there isn't a rule about it. You can have argumentative discussions full of ad hominem attacks in rants, but a thread dedicated to attacking a member of the forums isn't a rant at all. A rant is a tirade about a subject you feel important. Your post is an attack rather than a tirade, which means it's off topic for the rants forum. Off topic threads are either moved or locked. Which is why I reported it. You called out Ninetoes directly, which causes spill over outside of rants. You can troll people into responding in rants by hitting their hot-button issues, but you can't rub their face in it by calling them out in that thread, and in a non-rants thread call them out for not bringing it to rants. This isn't elementary school, you shouldn't be demanding someone meet you outside after class.

    If anyone really wanted to push it, they'd just go back to the thread in the General forum and tag you for all of the posts telling Ninetoes to take it to rants being a violation. That would require a ton of work for our 2 active Moderators, and writing up explanations of everything wrong would only serve to frustrate both of you (no one on Graffes has ever taken criticism well).

    Delores was willing to overlook my report because he disagreed. Until you reported Ninetoes, I don't think anything was going to happen to the thread.


    Switching subjects slightly I'd like to take this moment to point out that when we upgrade to 4.0 and were formulating rules, I wanted moderators to have 2 levels of moderation. The software calls them infraction and warnings. Infractions are "hey, you're getting close to being an asshole, watch out" and warnings were worth some number of points. I wanted Infractions to be privately discussed, and every warning to be public. You could have an infinite number of infractions, and it wouldn't matter. What matters with them is that everyone else can see where the line is at, and knows moderators are actually paying attention. I wanted them to get tossed out like beads at Mardi Gras, because I also wanted a requirement for a user complaints to be REQUIRED to escalate from infraction to warning level. Basically they would be non-meaningful notices that were like "hey, the moderators reviewed this, and think it wasn't very civil." The message from the moderators might be just "watch it" or "getting a little aggressive."

    All you would see is any post with an infraction would have a yellow card icon, and any post with a red card icon would link to a post discussing why it was being given a warning, and how many points said warning was worth. I never got to play around with it, but I was thinking most warnings were 1-2 points, with point decay of 1 point per week, and a ban once you reach 10 points until it decays below 10. To keep people from just being banned every other week, I'd do a Moderator+Administrator vote after 5+ bans for a perma ban. I thought this would be a great system because if someone was really pissing you the fuck off, you could just say fuck it, burn up 9 warnings by going to town on someone, and then moving on. Maybe this just worked for me because I think it would be cathartic to tell a few users exactly what I think about them sometimes.

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    Re: Delores Mulva

    I find that the kind of people who are fond of rules are the ones who take advantage of them to shush people they don't like while themselves prancing through every loophole as if the technicalities of human social abstractions are a real thing and not just a web of rationalizations and self-interested twaddle. In gamer terms, rules-whores suck.

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    Re: Delores Mulva

    I find that the rules tend to be strictly-enforced uncomprmising unbendable adamantine structures when applied against my own activities, but when I have tried in the past to invoke them in my own defense, they suddenly become flexible guidelines and all events become relativistically impossible to interpret due to the Fog of War or some shit like that. Or just flat ignored. Like when I used the Report function to report a threat made outside the actual written rules by a mod, and never got so much as a PM back from any other mod or admin. Or when I was actually running for Mod in an election, and it was a thread in this very section, where the rules of civility are alleged to be in full force, when another user was allowed to call me, and I quote, a "Nazi whore," and not only was he not suspended for that, but the insult was allowed to remain on the thread for, as far as I know, to this day.

    I find your invocation of authority to be self-serving hypocrisy at best.

  7. #7
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    Re: Delores Mulva

    Hiya Ali !

    -Miss you, and hope things are well.

    Oh, and IBTL.

    Nerkahia
    Retired 85 Wizard of Ascentia, The Nameless

    "Maybe if the Republicanoids weren't snorting coke off oil execs dicks, we could have had less dependancy on oil by now!!" - Silverblade-T-E

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    Re: Delores Mulva

    Up until the infamous shampoo thread got modded, it was a near free for all in rants. There was no such thing as off topic in rants, and there was no distinction made between tirades or personal attacks. As for stuff bleeding over from rants? Moderate that if it happens, but it doesn't (to my mind) justify the way rants has been emasculated. If as you say it's the most common reason for locking a thread, why did Ali (who's been here longer than me) think it was over a #4 violation? In the meantime, a rule #3 violation still stands in that locked thread.

    As for your mention of my reporting Ninetoes, I wasn't going to go into any of that publically but since you opened the door ... (Rule #3 violation ignored except for using my report as a reason to lock my thread?)

    Until he refused to even deal with what he'd thrown out there on making false allegations about my real life I was prepared to deal with it in the thread. At the point where he refused to clarify things I reported it in the hope it would be deleted. The risk to me irl may be minimal but the exposure is huge. Suffice it to say that it would indeed take an imbecile to boast about committing murder in real life here on this site. Fortunately for me, I never did any such thing and Ninetoes lied.

    You opened the door for that one Nadiar or as I said I would have kept mum. (When did mentioning who made a report cease to be a violation?)

    I'll make every honest effort to abide by the rules here, or leave. I already took a hiatus after the shampoo thread debacle in rants. What dictionary did you get that definition of rant from? I could find no such definition btw. At any rate, thanks for taking the time to explain your point of view and also for all the work you do Nadiar.

  9. #9
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    Re: Delores Mulva

    I see classy is back on Graffe's. How was the "they don't like me, waaaaaah" vacation? First, let's deal with the locked thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadiar
    Delores was willing to overlook my report because he disagreed. Until you reported Ninetoes, I don't think anything was going to happen to the thread.
    Since Nadiar has spilled mod forum secrets (bad admin! no biscuit!), might as well go all-out. The locked thread was reported twice. The first report was by Nadiar, who stated that Aennyil's thread was an attack thread and that it had no place in Graffe's. While I may agree that in a small community there's no place for poo-flinging like that, I knew of no precedent for locking such a thread. I asked Nadiar if he had one, he didn't respond, and as he guessed, no action would have been taken. Then Aennyil reported Baelan, for the same thread. Once both sides of a conversation are being reported, the train has left the tracks and it's time for a lock. I didn't see anything that was against the forum rules for rants, so no warnings were given or infractions handed out.

    You may note that I use "I" a lot in that description of what happened. That's there's currently four mods for rants: myself, Mdar, Schezar, and Maledict. Mdar is absent most of the time. Maledict still mods, but infrequently since an August 2014 thread that almost had him leaving Graffe's. Schezar also hasn't posted to the mod forum since August 2014, although he's an active poster and there wasn't much to respond to there (more later). Right now, modding is pretty much me. This is a little frustrating for me, since when I see a report I post my thoughts and ask for what the other mods think so we have multiple viewpoints before we reach consensus on actions required. But it is what it is, and if I didn't want to deal with it I'd ask to be deleted as a mod.

    I mentioned that Maledict almost left. What caused him to almost leave? It was the toxic environment on the board at the time. Guess which poster he cited specifically as an example of that toxic environment? Hint: she started this thread! I've seen mods want to leave because of Alikat. I've seen admins state that they stopped posting because of Alikat. When dealing with reported threads, I've had multiple posters state that they were out the door, again, because of Alikat. Since the infamous Fergusson thread in August, when you stomped off because you were called out on your crap, there's been two threads reported for mod action in total: the Baelan callout thread discussed above, and a thread asking "Where is Alikat" where someone was worried it would devolve into personal attacks. It didn't. The half year prior to that? Four reports, all about you. You are the problem. You are the drama.

    Mods have informally asked you to tone it down, to eliminate the personal attacks from your posting style. You have refused. You have been given public warnings to tone it down:

    http://www.graffe.com/forums/showthr...ssive-Attitude

    Every time, you come back guns blazing, determined to flame until nothing is left standing in your way. Look at what you've done here: no posts for over half a year, and when you do decide to post, it's the three posts you've made so far in this thread. If you have problems with the way Graffe's is moderated, it's because you can't accept responsibility for your actions, or that Graffe's is no longer the place you want it to be.

    I eagerly await your angry, frothing response to this post, because you've demonstrated that's all you're capable of doing. Be sure to report me for it, too, since the other mods have never seen your "flame, then play the victim" game before and will totally take your side this time. Have a nice day.

  10. #10
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    Re: Delores Mulva

    Quote Originally Posted by Delores Mulva View Post
    I see classy is back on Graffe's. How was the "they don't like me, waaaaaah" vacation?
    And you just don't see how saying snotty sarcastic shit like this makes you look like an asshole, do you? And not exactly unbiased in your (lousy) moderating. Oh, and I'm not actually back as a regular poster, not until you specifically are no longer a mod here. But it looks from the lack of traffic as if you're successfully killing the site. I was one of the last people who posted multiple times daily, and you drove me right the hell off. Enjoy your depopulated nursery school.
    Last edited by Alikat Astrae; March 17th, 2015 at 04:12 PM.

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    Re: Delores Mulva

    Oh, and BTW, I expected you to post a long self-serving un-backed-up-by-anything-but-ass-pulled-nonsense insulting rant that tl;dr's down to "I never considered the things YOU reported, such as being called a "Nazi Whore" in an election thread, to be important." No, the one really bad spot is someone who responds to insults with insults, not the guy calling a poster "nazi whore," not the guy who threatened to sue the board, not the guy who said homophobic shit, not the guy who said racist shit, not the guy who challenged another poster to a duel to the death, no, the one really dark spot in all this is the female poster who responds to direct insults with swear words and insulting retorts. Imagine how much ammo you'd actually have if I was the one who STARTED these exchanges!

    And I call "shenanigans" on the Maledict thing, he just wanted to get another kick in while I was not there to respond, if he was actually cutting back on his Graffe's usage due to me then that's pretty fucking stupid considering that there is an Ignore feature here.

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    Re: Delores Mulva

    And the example you decided to use, well you seem to have forgotten the context: http://www.graffe.com/forums/showthr...=1#post1763745

    Whoops, you think it's fine for someone to rewrite someone else's post, falsely attribute the results as a fake quote, and then impute heinous beliefs to that person based on, that's OK in the book of Delores Mulva, but God help the person being libeled if they cuss out the libeler and tell them to go DIAF. You don't give a shit about ACTUAL toxicity, you just care about fostering a false air of comity where the substance has already been subverted. It's all about the empty FORMS of politeness that obsesses you as a moderator, you couldn't give two shits about the underlying reality.

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    Re: Delores Mulva

    Alikat, Mdar is at work right now (and only Maledict and Mdar can moderate this forum), so I'm just going to point out that this forum has a higher level of decency that you're far outside the bounds of. You started it as an attack that could be considered a criticism, and all of the moderators are used to your trolling enough to know what reaction you wanted. Since no one gave you the reaction you wanted I see you've decided to push it further, but you're going way too far. Further attacks will result in a temporary ban from me until Mdar has had time to review.
    "Complaining is the modern metagame" - BNet forums

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    Re: Delores Mulva

    And you will just pretend that "How was the 'they don't like me, waaaaaah' vacation?" was NOT an uncivil attempt at trolling? How expected.

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    Re: Delores Mulva

    Seems like a pretty tame bit of quid pro quo harassment for "the same lousy moderator is doing the same lousy job of moderating."

    Also you ended your post with yet another pithy barb attempting to troll me. Even though I indicated the previous would be your final warning, I'll reiterate it again. Stop pushing.
    "Complaining is the modern metagame" - BNet forums

  16. #16
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    Re: Delores Mulva

    Three posts in response to one - there's the froth I was expecting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alikat
    And you just don't see how saying snotty sarcastic shit like this makes you look like an asshole, do you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Alikat, post#1 of the thread
    Applying primary school rules to a bunch of adult-ass gamers is so namby-pamby that I picture you wearing a Barney Fife costume with velcro nursing patches over the nipples.
    Quote Originally Posted by Me, my first post in the thread
    ...since the other mods have never seen your "flame, then play the victim" game before...
    I'm Nostradamus, I am. Starts with flames, gets called classless for flaming right out of the gate, cries about being called classless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alikat
    And not exactly unbiased in your (lousy) moderating.
    You seem to be operating under the assumption that there's mods that feel what you do is fine. You are wrong. I can't think of another forum where a poster that was actively disliked by all the admins, many of the mods, and whose actions were contrary to the posted norms of the forum would still be posting as a welcome member of the community. Biased against you? Please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alikat
    But it looks from the lack of traffic as if you're successfully killing the site.
    We held a donation drive while you were gone. We obtained funds for a few more years of hosting. Rumours of our passing have been greatly exaggerated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alikat
    "I never considered the things YOU reported, such as being called a "Nazi Whore" in an election thread, to be important." No, the one really bad spot is someone who responds to insults with insults, not the guy calling a poster "nazi whore," not the guy who threatened to sue the board, not the guy who said homophobic shit, not the guy who said racist shit, not the guy who challenged another poster to a duel to the death, no, the one really dark spot in all this is the female poster who responds to direct insults with swear words and insulting retorts.
    Unacceptable behaviour is unacceptable behaviour. There's no "but that guy is worse, so I'm OK" exception.

    I went back and looked at my modding history since I got the job back in Oct. 2011, specifically what I've done in response to your reports. I issued a warning to a user after your first report. I was conflicted out of responding to your second report, as I'd reported something in the same thread as well (in support of your report). Your third report was about me, and when no mod had posted anything after two days this is what I posted in the thread (name removed to stop identification of the post):

    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    Has anyone responded to Alikat yet? Obviously I disagree with her, but both she and (name redacted - Delores) took my comments badly so she at least deserves some kind of response.
    I was conflicted out of your next report because I was an integral part of the thread in question (you weren't after me in this report, you were supporting me). Your next report was about Jonas, and everyone knows the actions that were taken against him. After that came one more report, where I sided against your position in light of other reports received. So when it comes to things that you have a problem with, I'm looking at them from an unbiased position and, where appropriate, taking action. Was I even a mod for some of the things you cited as issues, btw? "Nazi whore" - wasn't that Torcer, who hasn't posted here since Nov. 2010?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alikat
    Whoops, you think it's fine for someone to rewrite someone else's post, falsely attribute the results as a fake quote, and then impute heinous beliefs to that person based on, that's OK in the book of Delores Mulva....
    We have no idea if that's OK in the books of Delores Mulva or not, because it was never reported. What was reported was your response, which was against the rules of the forums. I repeat: unacceptable behaviour is unacceptable behaviour. There's no "but that guy is worse, so I'm OK" exception. If you think someone has crossed a line, report them. I get that you have some sort of ancient beef with me. After all, this is what you posted in my election thread all those years ago, in response to the thread's "Should Delores Mulva be a moderator" question:

    Quote Originally Posted by Alikat
    No effing way. If Delores Mulva was a dog, I'd kick him.
    But the results back me up when I say that I've always taken your reports seriously, and if they have any merit to them I act on them in a way that you would want. If that's not enough for you, then you're never going to be happy with moderation here at Graffe's.

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    Re: Delores Mulva

    I'm locking this thread as it seems no one can be bothered to conduct themselves like an adult. This forum has always been held to a higher standard than anywhere else on the site as it's supposed to be a place to air grievances with out the thread ending up in a downward spiral.

    If some one would like to argue the case for this thread to be unlocked then you are more than welcomed to start a new thread in S/F admin. Provided that we can treat that post more like an academic debate and not a place to air our dirty laundry.
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