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Thread: 3D Printers

  1. #21

    Re: 3D Printers

    Quote Originally Posted by MI Redeux View Post
    I really wish you would stop focusing on Apple in that regard as it ignores the cause for that behavior by companies and that this is not specific to Apple, in particular patent trolls are much more egregious and harmful to innovation. And not that I think it should be patentable in the first place, but look and feel patents make more sense as a trademark or copyright than a patent IMO. In my ideal world patents and copyrights do not exist however.
    Apple's cases are the most publicized so I target them because if I pull obscure things out nobody will understand.

    On a side note... Amazon is about to enter the Patent Troll business again beyond their one click buy.
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1808939
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  2. #22
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    Re: 3D Printers

    I've picked up one of the reprap based 3d printers that are very affordable while I wait on the ones that are tens of thousands of dollars currently to come down in price; industrial quality 3d printers continue to crash in price year over year but they are not quite there yet, I would really love to have one that is on par with ones Shapeways and Seeedstudio use, but I am not willing to invest in one that expensive yet. I really love the reprap project as well, so supporting it is great and the community is as well; it's amazing what academics can accomplish when not fucking one another over papers and grants.

    One thing I do not see mentioned without googling for this specifically though is that you need to have your 3d printer in a space that is very well ventilated and not be around it while it is printing, the same precautions taken when working with toxic chemicals are valid here, and the 3d printers are kind of fucking loud as well. Presently I just have it stashed in a room adjacent to my lab that I can watch with a security camera remotely and not hear the racket or kill myself slowly.

  3. #23

    Re: 3D Printers

    I think the main challenge with the more advanced ones like Shapeways or even that company that prints out your WoW characters is that there is extensive after work done needed to cure the materials.

    I know the unit NASA used to print a rocket engine I think you had to kiln the parts afterwards. Not sure how Shapwways works and Character Prints uses some kind of plaster system.

    That said a progression in materials could allow a home user of a higher resolution system to just cure it in say their oven. Or would birth a compact kiln industry.

    whatever comes its only getting better and I predict a day when there is in mid sized towns and cities at a minimum the 3d printing version of a Kinkos. And odds are even units at Staples copy centers. I could even see an additional service at these places for use in house or for people who cannot afford one but high resolution laser scanning of objects, So someone with a good printer could go into a place with a USB key and their objects and get them scanned. And the good shops would offer outputs in .3ds .obj and .blend
    "When you name your baby Jeeves...you've pretty much set up his career for life. You don't see many Hit Men, for example, named Jeeves. "Pardon me sir, but I must wack you now."
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  4. #24
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    Re: 3D Printers

    I think that is very plausible, and something that exists on the net and something Amazon has taken up; with these printers the marginal cost on the filaments is a rounding error, immensely affordable already on the materials, the tooling is the only expensive part. We may see an exact replica of the situation we saw with laser printers becoming incorporated at homes instead of just businesses. One difference though between these cases is that with the laser printers, toxic fumes were not such that one should not be around it while it is printing though, so that makes the situation more complex to roll out world wide.

  5. #25
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    Re: 3D Printers

    The repraps are all < 1000 USD and make good quality prints for anything that is not very small and intricate, so for most all use cases it is sufficient. It should trivially pay for itself whilst we wait on 3D printers that can print small and intricate parts precisely to get < 10k USD. I've been quite satisfied with mine so far and I do not have to wait on a multi-day turnaround or deal with exorbitant markups. 3D printing will thoroughly make patents and copyrights completely irrelevant for the overwhelming number of goods, CNC machines are already much reduced in price as well compared to what they once were. Soon a very respectable manufacturing line will not only be compact but also of high quality with quick turnarounds. It will do for hardware what FOSS and DVCS has done for software. I fully expect printers to go on a terrorist watch list with the current idiotic moods resulting from a complete illiteracy in any technical field decision makers operate under, which is just embarrassing to see in action.
    Last edited by MI Redeux; August 8th, 2014 at 09:56 PM.

  6. #26

    Re: 3D Printers

    Yea I bet when non community designed printers start hitting the market the IP and Patent owners will try and force DRM onto them of course as with all DRM it will be broken in two days and someone will have it working in Linux and printing out things laser scanned into Blender with no restrictions. And once again the corporate world will in their usual fear of new tech miss the bus on what could be a cash cow for them.

    sorry no faith here in the corporate world to ever catch onto things before the bus leaves the terminal.
    "When you name your baby Jeeves...you've pretty much set up his career for life. You don't see many Hit Men, for example, named Jeeves. "Pardon me sir, but I must wack you now."
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  7. #27
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    Re: 3D Printers

    We kind of see this in the context of emulators, something which are wholly a social good and promote the well-being of cultural welfare, yet they often have little support, being the Coast Guard of computing and maligned by corporate. Jay Leno is someone who groks the utility 3D Printers have in preserving culture and historical technology, replicating lost or inaccessible parts.

  8. #28

    Re: 3D Printers

    First I had to google what groks was. But yes I imagine Leno would love 3D printing, Considering some of the stuff for cars he fixes up will never exist again. And he has the moolah to buy some of the best hardware. I think this will change the parts business forever, Numerous simple parts on cars could be printed in a reasonable amount of time. brackets and such are not too complex. No more would they have to store a dozen different headlamp brackets when they could just print off what is needed.

    More complex higher durability parts still might have too long of a print and post prep process to be viable for on demand but they could still for known repairs print it off ahead of time, So when someone makes an appointment for a known repair item such as recall, No longer would the automaker have to ship out parts and depend on production volume from a vendor they could just print it. I can imagine much lobbying against this. And even unknown repairs of complex things printing could be used as a final resort of no parts places in reasonable distance have it.

    Games Workshop is just plain fucked. They will never keep up, From what a friend tells me they have very odd management that has repeated fails in the new technology world.
    "When you name your baby Jeeves...you've pretty much set up his career for life. You don't see many Hit Men, for example, named Jeeves. "Pardon me sir, but I must wack you now."
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  9. #29
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    Re: 3D Printers

    Quote Originally Posted by FilanFyretracker View Post
    Games Workshop is just plain fucked. They will never keep up, From what a friend tells me they have very odd management that has repeated fails in the new technology world.
    Games Workshop may have problems on their hands once 3D printers become more publicly available, but the hobby as a whole will probably enter a new golden age. I know I wouldn't mind paying Jes Goodwin directly for new designs and being able to print my own bits. :-)

  10. #30

    Re: 3D Printers

    That is pretty much what I mean. Their cash cow of miniatures will end. But tabletop war gaming could see a resurgance with the enormous cost of entry gone it will be easier to get people into it.

    Though I should note its not uncommon for people to use Lego for units currently to save money.

  11. #31
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    Re: 3D Printers

    Quote Originally Posted by FilanFyretracker View Post
    That is pretty much what I mean. Their cash cow of miniatures will end. But tabletop war gaming could see a resurgance with the enormous cost of entry gone it will be easier to get people into it.

    Though I should note its not uncommon for people to use Lego for units currently to save money.
    Seriously?
    I have never ever heard or seen that before both from actual local play, Danish and international forums, so I doubt it can be too too widespread.
    But I can certainly understand the problem of the cost of entry!

  12. #32
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    Re: 3D Printers

    Quote Originally Posted by Milton Finkelstein View Post
    Seriously?
    I have never ever heard or seen that before both from actual local play, Danish and international forums, so I doubt it can be too too widespread.
    But I can certainly understand the problem of the cost of entry!
    Me neither, I always see fully painted armies. And it's not like we have a shortage of lego in Denmark

    I'd love me a 40k Space Orc army at some point in time. My old figurines got lost 2-3 moves ago.
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  13. #33
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    Re: 3D Printers

    Quote Originally Posted by Milton Finkelstein View Post
    Games Workshop may have problems on their hands once 3D printers become more publicly available, but the hobby as a whole will probably enter a new golden age. I know I wouldn't mind paying Jes Goodwin directly for new designs and being able to print my own bits. :-)
    I 100% agree that the hobby will enter a golden age, in fact I believe that all domains will enter a golden age once 3D printers become sufficient for their domains; we already see how an energized community has outpaced, out innovated, and embarrassed HID offerings with community driven mechanical keyboard projects which have resulted in tremendously innovative designs or significant improvements upon previous iterations which has actually been a blessing for the relevant parts industry, unable to keep up with demand year over year rather than destroying it. I expect we will see niche communities produce designs designed for experts by experts that previously were or are financially impossible to bring to market, markets which have had to settle for designing for the lowest common denominator to survive and generally resulted in shitty products. There are a lot of compelling designs and concepts in window managers on Linux for instance which are not possible to offer in a main stream OS/distribution because of the greater barrier to entry.

    High quality CNC machines are coming down in price significantly as well, which should also be very impactful. The most interesting manufacturing domain will be IC foundries though and how it changes as manufacturing at home becomes more prevalent and machines to do so become more accessible. I don't expect IC foundries will be much impacted though as IC packaging will continue to become more complex and minute for high end products; I expect ARM's model of licensing designs will become more pervasive however as design expertise becomes more available due to demands for more and more engineers, but vertical integration will rule all for manufacturing the actual products as Samsung has shown. However, we should see increasing manufacturing isolation as the importance of maintaining trade secrets from other companies and from corporate sabotage increases as is currently trending.

    BUT for trivial appliances like Coffee makers, which even if you want to make them as convoluted as possible and include networking and other crap (a Mr. Coffee with anti-virus, lol), it is still trivially incorporated without a very complex design that would need a high-end foundry.

  14. #34
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    Re: 3D Printers

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawlin View Post
    Me neither, I always see fully painted armies. And it's not like we have a shortage of lego in Denmark

    I'd love me a 40k Space Orc army at some point in time. My old figurines got lost 2-3 moves ago.
    Now is always a good time to (re)start :-)
    7th edition just came out and Ork release just completed.
    Still it is just the cheapest of hobbies, though.

  15. #35
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    Re: 3D Printers

    Quote Originally Posted by Milton Finkelstein View Post
    Now is always a good time to (re)start :-)
    7th edition just came out and Ork release just completed.
    Still it is just the cheapest of hobbies, though.
    My problem is the constant re release. Need a new freaking book every third year. If you run multiple armies, cost adds up quickly! The real problem for me is a place to play locally, the old place went out of business a while ago, and nothing else can seem to stick around long enough to grow

  16. #36
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    Re: 3D Printers

    Case in point of why any product should always have a mirror outside of the web: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8266072

    It's super duper simple too. Situations like this are the main reason I find the state of github so precarious, similar situations have already unfolded. The DMCA in general is amongst one of the most damaging to productivity laws on the books, only behind the patent system in terms of egregiousness IMO.

  17. #37

    Re: 3D Printers

    And unfortunately sites cannot ignore the DMCA if they choose and even if they host outside the US, A determined copyright holder can just have ICE steal the domain illegally.
    "When you name your baby Jeeves...you've pretty much set up his career for life. You don't see many Hit Men, for example, named Jeeves. "Pardon me sir, but I must wack you now."
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  18. #38
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    Re: 3D Printers

    Well I would like to make SPelljammer ships I built in Rhino into 3d printed versions but would require u ire complete rebuilds
    Lot of folk want some but no way I can afford a printer and about £30 per simple print
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  19. #39

    Re: 3D Printers

    Also the printers needed to really get high quality results from a modeling program are amazingly expensive still.
    "When you name your baby Jeeves...you've pretty much set up his career for life. You don't see many Hit Men, for example, named Jeeves. "Pardon me sir, but I must wack you now."
    — Jerry Seinfeld

  20. #40
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    Re: 3D Printers

    I just read about this on Slashdot...

    Dremel releases a 3D printer for the masses | Computerworld

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