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Thread: Graffe's moving forward

  1. #1
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    Graffe's moving forward

    First: We need to figure out if we want to keep this place going. Right now I tend to agree with some of the opinions i've seen about just taking graffe. com to it's own sub-reddit. No more rule problems, no more money issues, and it'd still work with how most of our content is provided for us anyway.

    Or we can keep the site/forums going. One of the things we'd need is a small group of people to actively write for the front page. I propose 4 people responsible for writing a 500 word (or more) article once a month on the topics of gaming, politics, technology or any combination of there of. I've written over 10k words this week and prior to that have been writing two to three articles for a magazine a month for the last year, and I can honestly say that 500 words a month isn't that hard. Please not that I'm not saying what I write is quality, just that I've been writing. These 4 (or more) writers will need to be good. We can even have a popularity contest to see who are first batch of people will be. We love popularity contests.

    The goal would be to publish one of these articles once a week every Monday. So yes, we will be working with a deadline each week, if you can't write 500 words in a week about something that happened then we could even accept original short fiction. Don't worry, you'll keep the rights to the work.

    Secondly we'll need a group of people to promote user created threads to the front page. If it had dawned on me to do so at the time I would have done that with Dmitry's Guild Wars 2 thread or the Tera thread. The rules for this would be pretty simple too. Only posts that contain most or all of the content on site will be allowed on the front page. Ackar's (in)famous lolcat threads need not apply, Torcer's home built arcade cabinet, on the other hand, would have been a shoe in.

    That's all fine and dandy, posting things to the front page that we've already seen on the forums, but what about getting new blood? That's the third phase and kind of requires everyone to pitch in. It was my birthday recently and I didn't get to see one topless woman, it made me sad. See something funny or interesting on the forums? Share it. Reddit, slashdot, twitter, facebook. what ever. We can even have our own hashtag for twitter, #graffedotcom, and maybe we can even have nadiar look into twitter intergration that won't break every time VB updates the time.

    If we as a community want to see graffe.com stick around and start to prosper again we need to have some kind of focus about what kind of community we are. I think the above is a good place to work from and I'm hoping you guys took the time to read everything and can come up with other suggestions.

    Thanks.
    What do you despise? By this are you truly known.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DmitrytheWizzy View Post
    Mdar posts less than Graffe.
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    Quelian> Oh god how do I get the forums back into title only listings for posts!? OMG THE UNREADABLE
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  2. #2
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    Re: Graffe's moving forward

    I try to stay out of the politics threads, so forgive me if my interest seems somewhat specialized. What sort of gaming articles are you looking for? Reviews? Mechanics discussions? Are we looking for gamers to blog their experiences with their gaming? "Let's Play" sorts of postings, perhaps with video/picture content off-site?

    500 words isn't hard, but 500 good words could be, especially if the writer is going a different direction than the site.

  3. #3
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    Re: Graffe's moving forward

    I don't know what a reddit is

  4. #4
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    Re: Graffe's moving forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Backster View Post
    I don't know what a reddit is
    www.reddit.com

    ...and now you will lose a day. Go back three spaces.

  5. #5
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    Re: Graffe's moving forward

    Lol, that had totally been happening. I read the wiki entry on it first and yes, now I'm about to blow a day.

  6. #6
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    Re: Graffe's moving forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Eniarch View Post
    I try to stay out of the politics threads, so forgive me if my interest seems somewhat specialized. What sort of gaming articles are you looking for? Reviews? Mechanics discussions? Are we looking for gamers to blog their experiences with their gaming? "Let's Play" sorts of postings, perhaps with video/picture content off-site?

    500 words isn't hard, but 500 good words could be, especially if the writer is going a different direction than the site.
    All of those would be good and link to off-site pictures and video is ok as long as the content remains on site.
    What do you despise? By this are you truly known.

    It is only when the well nears dry do we think to ration supply.

    Quote Originally Posted by DmitrytheWizzy View Post
    Mdar posts less than Graffe.
    After a forum update
    Quelian> Oh god how do I get the forums back into title only listings for posts!? OMG THE UNREADABLE
    nadiar-work> I WILL FUCKING MURDER YOU
    Quelian> my job is done here

  7. #7
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    Re: Graffe's moving forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Mdar View Post
    First: We need to figure out if we want to keep this place going. Right now I tend to agree with some of the opinions i've seen about just taking graffe. com to it's own sub-reddit. No more rule problems, no more money issues, and it'd still work with how most of our content is provided for us anyway.
    You can just create one now and call it the Arcanist Hall.

    Or we can keep the site/forums going. One of the things we'd need is a small group of people to actively write for the front page. I propose 4 people responsible for writing a 500 word (or more) article once a month on the topics of gaming, politics, technology or any combination of there of.
    Huh? Why is this a critical component for keeping the forums going? If we have a staff of good writers willing to turn graffe.com into a legitimate blog site, ok, but that's never what graffe's has been, ever, and it's silly to suggest that's what it will take to keep the site going.

    I've written over 10k words this week and prior to that have been writing two to three articles for a magazine a month for the last year, and I can honestly say that 500 words a month isn't that hard. Please not that I'm not saying what I write is quality, just that I've been writing. These 4 (or more) writers will need to be good. We can even have a popularity contest to see who are first batch of people will be. We love popularity contests.
    Bad quality essays on the front page is not going to save Graffe's.

    Dmitry had several good ideas for the front page a short while ago.

    Secondly we'll need a group of people to promote user created threads to the front page. If it had dawned on me to do so at the time I would have done that with Dmitry's Guild Wars 2 thread or the Tera thread. The rules for this would be pretty simple too. Only posts that contain most or all of the content on site will be allowed on the front page. Ackar's (in)famous lolcat threads need not apply, Torcer's home built arcade cabinet, on the other hand, would have been a shoe in.
    Random user promoted threads on the front page is another bad idea-- so some random group of posters assembled at gunpoint is responsible for sifting through everything and effectively deciding what's interesting?

    The content of graffe's is the forums. The front page should guide the users there, yes, but not by weekly cherry-pickings that just make the site look like a typical cluttered webnews site. Front page should tell users what Graffe's is (history, current, etc.), how to navigate the forums (where the gaming stuff is, the off-topic stuff, etc.).

    That's all fine and dandy, posting things to the front page that we've already seen on the forums, but what about getting new blood? That's the third phase and kind of requires everyone to pitch in. It was my birthday recently and I didn't get to see one topless woman, it made me sad. See something funny or interesting on the forums? Share it. Reddit, slashdot, twitter, facebook. what ever. We can even have our own hashtag for twitter, #graffedotcom, and maybe we can even have nadiar look into twitter intergration that won't break every time VB updates the time.

    If we as a community want to see graffe.com stick around and start to prosper again we need to have some kind of focus about what kind of community we are. I think the above is a good place to work from and I'm hoping you guys took the time to read everything and can come up with other suggestions.

    Thanks.
    Before we decide what to be and where to go, we should take a look at where we are.

  8. #8
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    Re: Graffe's moving forward

    There are only ~200 active users on this forum. That may sound like a lot, but, by website standards, this is tiny. We shouldn't be talking about creating whole new sections of the site, or populating features on the front page. This all requires work -- precious investments of time that, frankly, if people haven't been willing to contribute up until this point, they are not going to do so reliably over time.

    Having a dedicated reddit or conversational space that costs no one anything, that is no beholden to ridiculous rules-lawyering, and that keeps a semblance of this social club going is, in my view, the only alternative to letting this place die out completely.

    You can't create demand for a place whose time has already come and gone, nor can you "reinvent" yourself without new people to do the reinventing. Instead, preserve the collective knowledge, memories, and community of this place by protecting the social fabric of the Graffe.com club, and transport it over to a reddit / google group / or similar free infrastructure that gives people all of the discussion space they want.

  9. #9
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    Re: Graffe's moving forward

    I wouldn't mind seeing something like a user-written article or two on the main page. But nothing is stopping that from happening right now and obviously no one is stepping up to do it. To force that to happen publicly it would mean giving people accountability publicly, which is something that seems to result in driving people away from the site. So I think trying to force that type of content publicly might be a bad idea. Might be better to quietly approach a few people who can write worth a bean and ask them for contributions. Maybe even come up with a few topics for them. Smart people who can write aren't hampered by having to tackle a new subject for them.

    The idea of a message board is that it needs some sort of focus. This one used to be for EQ wizards, another one I visit is for comic book fans, another one I visit is for Subaru owners. Right now we are unfocused. And that may not change, as we were all brought together by a common interest that no longer exists for us. So we have to make our own purpose, as a community. What you are trying to do with this thread is a good thing, because it aims to do that. Unfortunately I just don't have many ideas about it.

    Bringing new blood into the fold...not sure about that one. Probably it comes back to focus. Make the site about something and people who are interested in that subject will find it.
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  10. #10
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    Re: Graffe's moving forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Goladus View Post
    You can just create one now and call it the Arcanist Hall.
    Lowkey wanted the Arcanist Hall to ONLY have discussion about Wizards, and only FACTUAL information. As such the goal was extremely heavy moderation. This was prompted because at the time Graffes was FULL of Off Topic conversation, and the On-Topic Conversation was a lot of "Wizards need to do more damage! I can't get groups because I don't do enough damage!" Instead of "Wizards don't do enough damage compared to X, and here is a lot of broken down information from theorycraft/logs"

    A site like that would probably be in a better status right now, because it would have been filled with the people that like crunching numbers, and while that would have had a pretty small membership, it would have been in a good position to keep growing after all games followed the WoW model and had their own forums for each class.

    Vdou and I push Reddit because Reddit is primarily focused on sharing existing stories from somewhere else. Outside of Wools posts in the game forums, we have maybe a couple "new content" threads in a given month that people would be interested to read.

  11. #11
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    Re: Graffe's moving forward

    For the record I have no objection to a graffe subreddit. Just don't expect it to be any different from the graffe IRC channel or the vBulletin-social-network and don't expect it to replace the forums.

    Reddit is more content-centric while VB more user-centric. People here have stronger identities than they do on Reddit. Graffe's also supports longer conversations. I'm not saying this is good or bad it is what it is. If you try to move the site to reddit, there's a good chance it will fail miserably and fade into oblivion, absorbed by much larger groups that are better at what reddit does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelon
    There are only ~200 active users on this forum. That may sound like a lot, but, by website standards, this is tiny. We shouldn't be talking about creating whole new sections of the site, or populating features on the front page. This all requires work -- precious investments of time that, frankly, if people haven't been willing to contribute up until this point, they are not going to do so reliably over time.
    I agree, though I do want to emphasize that the ~200 active user mark is enough that the forum does stay continuously busy. By independent webforum standards Graffe's is a very active site.
    Last edited by Goladus; May 18th, 2012 at 07:22 PM.

  12. #12
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    Re: Graffe's moving forward

    Incidentally I've had a reddit account for 5 years and barely use it.

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    Re: Graffe's moving forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Goladus View Post
    Incidentally I've had a reddit account for 5 years and barely use it.
    That's fine, I've had a graffe.com account for 9 and barely use it.
    What do you despise? By this are you truly known.

    It is only when the well nears dry do we think to ration supply.

    Quote Originally Posted by DmitrytheWizzy View Post
    Mdar posts less than Graffe.
    After a forum update
    Quelian> Oh god how do I get the forums back into title only listings for posts!? OMG THE UNREADABLE
    nadiar-work> I WILL FUCKING MURDER YOU
    Quelian> my job is done here

  14. #14
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    Re: Graffe's moving forward

    Ron Jeremy had the longest account of them all.

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    Re: Graffe's moving forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Goladus View Post
    You can just create one now and call it the Arcanist Hall.

    Huh? Why is this a critical component for keeping the forums going? If we have a staff of good writers willing to turn graffe.com into a legitimate blog site, ok, but that's never what graffe's has been, ever, and it's silly to suggest that's what it will take to keep the site going.
    The general focus has moved from EQ to most things geek related. It may not 'save' the site but it would bring more content to the site than what we have and possibly generated more conversations. Who knows, some of the old posters might come back.

    Bad quality essays on the front page is not going to save Graffe's.
    Does this mean you volunteer to edit any essay on the front page so that they're not bad? Because if so we're already a step closer to this.

    Random user promoted threads on the front page is another bad idea-- so some random group of posters assembled at gunpoint is responsible for sifting through everything and effectively deciding what's interesting?
    I must not have been clear about this, but everyone providing content for the front page would be a volunteer. It would be some one that wanted to do it. Not a list of random people chosen from the list of active users and told that if they don't the'll be banned.

    The content of graffe's is the forums. The front page should guide the users there, yes, but not by weekly cherry-pickings that just make the site look like a typical cluttered webnews site. Front page should tell users what Graffe's is (history, current, etc.), how to navigate the forums (where the gaming stuff is, the off-topic stuff, etc.).
    Having stories on the front page that are linked to threads (it's what publishing a thread does, by the way) will bring some one landing on the front page to that thread, or into the forums. As for having a 'how to graffe' on the front page I don't think it's needed. Nadiar has done a great job in organizing the forums.

    Before we decide what to be and where to go, we should take a look at where we are.
    We're doing that right now, that thread is nearing 200 posts too.




    Quote Originally Posted by Lunal View Post
    I wouldn't mind seeing something like a user-written article or two on the main page. But nothing is stopping that from happening right now and obviously no one is stepping up to do it. To force that to happen publicly it would mean giving people accountability publicly, which is something that seems to result in driving people away from the site. So I think trying to force that type of content publicly might be a bad idea. Might be better to quietly approach a few people who can write worth a bean and ask them for contributions. Maybe even come up with a few topics for them. Smart people who can write aren't hampered by having to tackle a new subject for them.
    Again, volunteer basis. If some one thinks they can right well it'd be pretty simple to ask the community at large if they should be allowed to write for the front page. And as for asking people to write for us the two I think of off the top of my head tend to get busy with real life, and one hasn't posted since January.

    The idea of a message board is that it needs some sort of focus. This one used to be for EQ wizards, another one I visit is for comic book fans, another one I visit is for Subaru owners. Right now we are unfocused. And that may not change, as we were all brought together by a common interest that no longer exists for us. So we have to make our own purpose, as a community. What you are trying to do with this thread is a good thing, because it aims to do that. Unfortunately I just don't have many ideas about it.
    Even if you don't have ideas, your feed back is greatly appreciated.
    Bringing new blood into the fold...not sure about that one. Probably it comes back to focus. Make the site about something and people who are interested in that subject will find it.
    That's kind of what the social media campaign (I use the term very loosely, like frozen's sister) would be for. Dmitry's posts about GW2 would have been a great thing to share on twitter etc because it was current and well written. Even a persons response to a news article, if it's well thought out and interesting to read, would be good to share. That'd be how we'd get new people to show up. If we get more people to show up, even once or twice a month, might make placing google ads on the front page.

    Speaking of generating income, an affiliate account for graffe.com at amazon would probably help as well.
    What do you despise? By this are you truly known.

    It is only when the well nears dry do we think to ration supply.

    Quote Originally Posted by DmitrytheWizzy View Post
    Mdar posts less than Graffe.
    After a forum update
    Quelian> Oh god how do I get the forums back into title only listings for posts!? OMG THE UNREADABLE
    nadiar-work> I WILL FUCKING MURDER YOU
    Quelian> my job is done here

  16. #16

    Re: Graffe's moving forward

    Fundamentally good ideas. Stop fucking poo poo ing them you negative nancys.

    I will write something for the front page. The more interesting topics could be promoted there as well.

    The key to making something interesting is to be punchy.

  17. #17
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    Re: Graffe's moving forward

    Stop fucking poo poo ing them you negative nancys.
    Try whatever you want with the front page, just skip the "or else we'll shut the whole thing down and move to reddit" bullshit.

  18. #18
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    Re: Graffe's moving forward

    I'll start this up in earnest when the donation drive is completed.

    The abuse will continue until donations improve.

    P.S.
    or else we'll shut down the whole thing and move to reddit.
    What do you despise? By this are you truly known.

    It is only when the well nears dry do we think to ration supply.

    Quote Originally Posted by DmitrytheWizzy View Post
    Mdar posts less than Graffe.
    After a forum update
    Quelian> Oh god how do I get the forums back into title only listings for posts!? OMG THE UNREADABLE
    nadiar-work> I WILL FUCKING MURDER YOU
    Quelian> my job is done here

  19. #19
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    Re: Graffe's moving forward

    I've donated already. Attempt at humor is wasted on me.

  20. #20
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    Re: Graffe's moving forward

    Why do we even need a front page?? Point the domain to the forum root and be done with it. I've been coming here since god knows when and the only time I've ever seen the front page is when I am on a new device that doesn't have the general discussion forum in its history.
    < Insert bananas here >

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