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Thread: Finances and Administration

  1. #61
    Lord Inquisitor Lenin
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    Re: Finances and Administration

    Quote Originally Posted by Mdar View Post
    This, like the reputation system, is a bad idea.
    Why? There should probably be some way to remove rogue moderators.

  2. #62
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    Re: Finances and Administration

    To address what Nad was saying about running the server, I'm also quite capable of that, but again Dmitry is right, you can't elect an admin, you have to select them based on qualifications. The fact that we have single points of failure/authority bugs me quite a bit, though, because if something happened to Dan, we'd all be fucked. That's not cool, imo. Maybe Graffe or someone else has backup access and I'm not aware, but it is something that's bothered me for quite some time...

  3. #63

    Re: Finances and Administration

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadiar View Post
    I just wanted to point out to the people PMing me that I was right and you didn't take what I said as a troll!

    BOOM WINNER.
    My first version of the response did. Then I decided that maybe you realized I LIKE being able to fuck around and get banned.

  4. #64
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    Re: Finances and Administration

    You're an attention whore. Damn, I better not use the word whore any more.

  5. #65
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    Re: Finances and Administration

    Quote Originally Posted by DmitrytheWizzy View Post
    Yeah uh bullshit. It was my prodding and if I had not done it we probably would not have known we had such a problem. A problem i might add which is now full of even MORE suck because this end run bullshit it going to embarrass the crap out of Grin and now he will never come back.

    Fucking Grindel.
    I think fucking Grindel is what caused him to be busy with being a new father.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eamin View Post
    Why? There should probably be some way to remove rogue moderators.
    That should be the job of the key holding admin or even the lead mod. If it's a big problem then even the tech admin can do a temp ban or remove the person's ability to moderate until others can take control of the situation. Not a rep system that can be easily manipulated and would require more oversight than our elections.
    What do you despise? By this are you truly known.

    It is only when the well nears dry do we think to ration supply.

    Quote Originally Posted by DmitrytheWizzy View Post
    Mdar posts less than Graffe.
    After a forum update
    Quelian> Oh god how do I get the forums back into title only listings for posts!? OMG THE UNREADABLE
    nadiar-work> I WILL FUCKING MURDER YOU
    Quelian> my job is done here

  6. #66
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    Re: Finances and Administration

    Removing rogue moderators is the responsibility of the lead mod, should they feel it's required. I'm not sure that's something we've ever really discussed, though, as the six month term and the elections seem to have worked out quite well so far, in that we haven't had any rogue mods that I'm aware of?

  7. #67
    Lord Inquisitor Lenin
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    Re: Finances and Administration

    Quote Originally Posted by Mdar View Post
    That should be the job of the key holding admin or even the lead mod. If it's a big problem then even the tech admin can do a temp ban or remove the person's ability to moderate until others can take control of the situation. Not a rep system that can be easily manipulated and would require more oversight than our elections.
    Not sure how the polls I'm describing are any more "easily manipulated" than the system we already use to elect mods in the first place, nor how they would require any oversight at all until a mod managed to reach the requisite threshold of unpopularity, at which point the only oversight required would be to check for fraudulent votes.

    Letting the admin remove misbehaving mods has the effect of making the role of admin one of real power and responsibility, which I don't think anyone really wants. The admin is there to assure the basic legal and financial continuity of the site, not to be a moderator.

    Letting the other mods do it is a good alternative, though.

  8. #68
    Lord Inquisitor Lenin
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    Re: Finances and Administration

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonas View Post
    Removing rogue moderators is the responsibility of the lead mod, should they feel it's required. I'm not sure that's something we've ever really discussed, though, as the six month term and the elections seem to have worked out quite well so far, in that we haven't had any rogue mods that I'm aware of?
    The position of "lead mod" is itself kind of informal, as far as I can tell. Which isn't really a bad thing, I think the system has worked pretty well. My fear is that with the lengthening of mod terms there will be more time for mods to drift out of step with the boards that elected them. As long as we have some standard method in place for removing misbehaving mods I'll be satisfied, though.

    The one time we really needed to remove a rogue mod was when Dmitry managed to become a mod after our disastrous flirtation with a non-Eamin-approved voting method, so it probably isn't particularly likely to happen again.

  9. #69
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    Re: Finances and Administration

    No, lead mod has access to additional UI functionality.

  10. #70
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    Two things: first, Jonas, Nadiar is exactly right. If you folks can find some other way to solve this problem that you are happy with that is fine with me. Really truly. I am not trying to hold anyone's hand over the fire. It looks like we have enough donations to tide us over for a bit as well, so you actually have time to find another option if you don't like the one on offer.

    Secondly, Dmitry. I know you have a thing for portraying me as Emma Goldman in Jack boots at the moment, but I have no desire to control Graffes or stifle discussion. Fuck, I miss Torcer as much as you do. I just don't have the patience for the back and forth of it at this time in my life. So awesome, if you want to pay the bills and the rest of the folks are good with it, I am happy as a pig in shit. I just can't afford to continue to do so myself.
    "Computer science is a continuation of logic by other means" -- Georg Gottlob

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  11. #71

    Re: Finances and Administration

    Oh please. This site has gone down hill steadily since the boring ass PC bullshit took over. I don't really even blame Grindel for bailing on this steaming pile of bland mashed potato without even a lick of butter or salt. Without something to read here, this place is fucking dead. You really think people want to come to a place where everything is always PC bullshit? Well if you do, the death of actual making new threads or posting here should be proof enough to make you reconsider.

  12. #72
    Lord Inquisitor Lenin
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    Re: Finances and Administration

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonas View Post
    No, lead mod has access to additional UI functionality.
    Well whaddya know. OK, then giving the lead mod this sort of power seems reasonable to me.

  13. #73
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    Re: Finances and Administration

    Quote Originally Posted by DmitrytheWizzy View Post
    Oh please. This site has gone down hill steadily since the boring ass PC bullshit took over. I don't really even blame Grindel for bailing on this steaming pile of bland mashed potato without even a lick of butter or salt. Without something to read here, this place is fucking dead. You really think people want to come to a place where everything is always PC bullshit? Well if you do, the death of actual making new threads or posting here should be proof enough to make you reconsider.
    Was "old Graffe's" really more tolerant of, say, homophobia or racism than today's Graffe's, to the extent that it drove traffic or conversation? I certainly don't remember much of that, though we did have a couple out-and-out racist posters (Smartypants) who aren't around anymore.

    Either way, we really do need to settle on some sort of final wording for our civility rule(s). At the moment they're not particularly well-written. So in spite of the fact that Voca's proposal takes the form of an ultimatum I think it would behoove all of us to think of ways to address her concerns.

  14. #74
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    What part of I am happy if some other arrangement can be made was unclear? Nadiar has absolutely all the information needed to set some other arrangement up, so it's not like you need my consent or something.
    "Computer science is a continuation of logic by other means" -- Georg Gottlob

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  15. #75
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    Re: Finances and Administration

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonas View Post
    Removing rogue moderators is the responsibility of the lead mod, should they feel it's required. I'm not sure that's something we've ever really discussed, though, as the six month term and the elections seem to have worked out quite well so far, in that we haven't had any rogue mods that I'm aware of?
    You banning Dmitry for him calling you boneass. Then, years later, when Dmitry won a mod election and just started a giant storm of shit some time later. I guess we could also count Glinlor and Merloc as rogue mods because those guys were fucking awful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eamin View Post
    Not sure how the polls I'm describing are any more "easily manipulated" than the system we already use to elect mods in the first place, nor how they would require any oversight at all until a mod managed to reach the requisite threshold of unpopularity, at which point the only oversight required would be to check for fraudulent votes.

    Letting the admin remove misbehaving mods has the effect of making the role of admin one of real power and responsibility, which I don't think anyone really wants. The admin is there to assure the basic legal and financial continuity of the site, not to be a moderator.

    Letting the other mods do it is a good alternative, though.
    Our current system prevents people with fewer than 50 posts from voting and the accounts would have to be made before a certain date. During and after the election it's easy to check. But 3 months later having to check a poll where some one now has more down votes? The only people that can see who voted on what are the admins IIRC.

    Once passed that threshold is it an automatic loss of mod-hood? After just one unpopular decision I can see a mod getting ousted almost instantly. Then this calls in to question his actions, did he over step his authority and does what he did need to be undone or was it simply a controversial issue. No matter what, the other mods and admins are going to have to weigh in before removing the person as a mod. Then the mods and admins have to decide what is to be done as punishment. Is this rogue mod stripped of his or her mod-hood only or given a ban? If a person's ability to mod is dependent on making the community like him or her and then the moment they fall out of favour they get banned I can guarantee that no one (but me) would run for mod. I will admit my own bewilderment at constantly being re-elected term after term.
    What do you despise? By this are you truly known.

    It is only when the well nears dry do we think to ration supply.

    Quote Originally Posted by DmitrytheWizzy View Post
    Mdar posts less than Graffe.
    After a forum update
    Quelian> Oh god how do I get the forums back into title only listings for posts!? OMG THE UNREADABLE
    nadiar-work> I WILL FUCKING MURDER YOU
    Quelian> my job is done here

  16. #76
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    Re: Finances and Administration

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonas
    ....in that we haven't had any rogue mods that I'm aware of?
    Rogue mods whine too much about daggers not dropping, you wouldn't want them anyways.

  17. #77
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    Re: Finances and Administration

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonas View Post
    No, lead mod has access to additional UI functionality.
    No I don't.
    What do you despise? By this are you truly known.

    It is only when the well nears dry do we think to ration supply.

    Quote Originally Posted by DmitrytheWizzy View Post
    Mdar posts less than Graffe.
    After a forum update
    Quelian> Oh god how do I get the forums back into title only listings for posts!? OMG THE UNREADABLE
    nadiar-work> I WILL FUCKING MURDER YOU
    Quelian> my job is done here

  18. #78
    Lord Inquisitor Lenin
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    Re: Finances and Administration

    So it is just an informal position attributed internally by the newly-elected slate of mods to one of their number, as I thought?

  19. #79

    Re: Finances and Administration

    If you could actually get the site going again there really should be a rule that Mods have to at least log in and post from time to time. I dunno... maybe that's just me.

  20. #80
    Lord Inquisitor Lenin
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    Re: Finances and Administration

    Why should mods have to post if they don't feel like it? I don't understand your reasoning.

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