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Thread: What exactly is a hostile environment?

  1. #61
    Formerly: Baelan Shadowbane
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Delores Mulva View Post
    We just had an election for mods. I didn't see your name on the list. Which mod did you get permission from to moderate Dmitry's thread, in their stead, so their stance on this issue can be remembered next election? If you didn't get permission from one of the new mods, what position is it that you hold that allows you to mod at will, and why do we bother electing mods when an unelected person can moderate at will? And if you aren't in a position that should allow you to mod at will, could you please restore Dmitry's original post so a real mod can make the decision for which they were elected?
    As you well know Delores, Grindel is the administrator of Graffes. That means he has essential authority to make decisions regarding the health of Graffes and its running. It also means he has the ability to moderate as necessary. That Grindel prefers not to, and would rather have a moderator do so is purely a function of how he likes to run things. It should not be construed as his requiring permission from any mod as his authority supersedes all of ours.

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  2. #62
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    What is a hostile environment? Continually posting witty semantic derivations of faggot, linking homosexuality and pedophilia in a wink,wink,nod manner.

    D, I get it - you are tilting at windmills in a good cause, or so you think. Problem is you are like some cauliflower earred boxer who used to fight for something, but just swings because he doesn't know any better.



    Re: The Torcer Derail. Yeah, the "Go Back To Your Own Country" was fucked up. And we mods dropped the ball on it - something I have said tot he parties involved. BUT if Graffes was a hostile environment to Torcer, he himself bears the brunt of that. Let us not forget, this was also a man who referred to posters who disagreed with him on an issue "apologists" and "terrorist sympathizers". A man who criticized me for imaginary misogyny against Layonya, and turned right around and continually referred to Alikat as a "hateful bitch" and "Nazi bitch". So while we may lament his choice to no longer participate here, let us also remember that Torcer gave as good as he got.

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  3. #63
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    I didn't tell anyone to go back to their own country But that's OK again I can take it. Plus you did take me to task as I deserved, Toez.

    To answer your question directly Delores, I was asked ages ago to handle Dmitry's various spasms. We do not currently have a lead mod selected, but when we do you can rest assured that I will ask that person if they want that responsibility. If they don't I'll keep it.

    Lastly, to the best of my knowledge at least there's nothing at all personal going on here. 99% of the time the world doesn't get to see it, but the gnome and I have a fun and interesting relationship that I'd say is at least collegial. I sort of get, still, where he's maybe trying to go and if nothing I've been completely consistent with asking him to use the doggone process to do what he wants to do rather than bang pots and pans together. The other side of that coin is that there are a lot of things this community could be or do, a lot of paths that have been missed or are there but are not being walked down, because instead of moving forward the admins are bogged down with soul-sapping business like this. It's been years now of this nonsense, across three admins, and what do we have to show for it? Fewer posters and a few discussion threads that get traffic for a bit then go away.

  4. #64
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Delores Mulva View Post
    No, I think each thread has to be judged on its own merits.
    Then you've just started posting at Graffes. Welcome to the board. Should you decide to click on Dmitry's name you might have some idea of the type of threads he likes to start and spam. Faygoat and Faggot apparently being among his choices.
    And, for the record, what I think is "cute" is a straight guy reporting a post for making a hostile environment for gays, followed by a non-mod moderating the post. That's all kinds of cute. If someone who would actually be impacted by Dmitry's bile shot me a PM and said that his post was awful, like Backster or Maledict, that's one thing. But unless you turn this thread into a coming out party, Apallo....
    You couldn't handle me if I did. So why flirt?
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  5. #65
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    for the record, what I think is "cute" is a straight guy reporting a post for making a hostile environment for gays
    So, would you think it "cute" if a male reported apparent sexual harassment directed towards a female in the workplace?

    Quite simply - a Hostile environment is that which makes a person uncomfortable.

    I do not like threads titled "Faggots" -- even if inside is a bunch of sticks of wood. I do not like "faygoats" - because even though dmitry says it means nothing it obviously does, or he wouldn't fucking do it.

    HE made the association. Not us.

    It could easily have been Maypoat or Layroate.
    No it couldn't have - because nobody would have understood your gibberish. Your point, such as you have one would have been lost. So you chose the word that worked... that could Easily have been associated. Which means your intent was to associate.

    Go to any workplace walk around talking about "faygoats" -- tell me how long it is before you're hauled up to HR for a little chat about conversations appropriate to the environment.

    We wish to make Graffe's an environment appropriate for all.
    and I know this place isn't a "workplace" it's a private club... that has standards at the door. Dmitry, pushes those. On purpose.



    Any reasonable person who walks by and sees thread titles of "here's some more pictures of Faggots" "here's some faygoats", "Gays = Pedo's" etc etc etc... a person who observes that from the outside is going to consider this place to be homophobic, or at least homophobic tolerant.

    Just as if a person used apparent Racial slurs in thread titles this place would be considered hostile towards that particular racial group.
    I've got beer to drink and You guys are wasting my time.

  6. #66
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Ninetoe
    oh heck no I didn't mean anything about the mods regarding Torcer, mate
    just that we all have things we can go a bit...batty on as said :P Hell, I know I may be well wrong on things I believe that are outre'. it's all ok, long as it ain't actually mean-spirited.
    intent is important, and I always try and be humorous, use smileys etc to show that...but as said somedays...yich, I'm relaly messed up Appreciated yer understanding such in that latest "vaccine thread"

    I kept trying to draw Torcer's thoughts to the historical warning of the example of the Sicarii and similar, who ended up causing more damn harm to their own people than anyone else did. Difference != enemy.
    Understanding WHY a perosn believes certain things is vital, hence why I often explain with stories etc that gave me my viewpoints. We're people, not programs
    I'm willing to debate about anything, I can see Dmitry has a point he wishes to yak about, well, let's talk about it, but without the crap.

    I don't know how much abuse Dmitry has suffered in RL, and if he gets what it can really do to folk, how edgy they cna get about it etc. Like I said, I will rib gay pals about their love life etc, just as I would straight pals :P just I do realize some gay folk have problems/bad memories/touchy areas *personally*, quite understandably in fact. can't really regulate that for a board just by personal explanation/request etc as it Is "personal". "abuse" and "friendly ribbing" ain't the same at all.
    Linking gay <=> child rapists is not cool.

  7. #67
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baelan
    D, I get it - you are tilting at windmills in a good cause, or so you think. Problem is you are like some cauliflower earred boxer who used to fight for something, but just swings because he doesn't know any better.
    Following the rules is a good cause. It's unfortunate that a newly-elected mod doesn't get that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apallo
    Should you decide to click on Dmitry's name you might have some idea of the type of threads he likes to start and spam. Faygoat and Faggot apparently being among his choices.
    Those are the threads he should be taken to task for, not this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melcar
    So, would you think it "cute" if a male reported apparent sexual harassment directed towards a female in the workplace?
    This has happened in a work environment where I was the boss. My response was to go to the girl who was supposedly being harassed and ask her, in as supportive a manner as possible, if she felt uncomfortable with anything, if she wanted me to take any actions, and to let her know if she ever did feel uncomfortable about anything to let me know. It was not my position to assume I knew what she felt was harassment and what was just joking around between coworkers. Given that nobody at Graffe's is worried about losing their jobs or being ostracized by the rest of the community for snitching, this method of doing things is even more relevant than it was in my workplace.

    (For the record, the girl in question, a receptionist at a car dealership, felt that the kidding back and forth with the sales staff was part of the workplace bonding experience and that since she was giving as good as she got without any serious escalation (no touching, offensive language, etc.) that there wasn't a problem. And, truth be told, I wasn't too concerned that any of the middle aged and beyond, out-of-shape salespeople would mess with her, since she was a high school wrestling champ and still had the arms and shoulders to prove it.)

  8. #68
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Delores Mulva View Post
    Following the rules is a good cause. It's unfortunate that a newly-elected mod doesn't get that.
    Sorry but these guys just won't get it. They're stuck in the same risk averse pattern Voca set as the SOP around here.

  9. #69

    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melcar View Post
    Quite simply - a Hostile environment is that which makes a person uncomfortable..
    This sentence makes me uncomfortable. Ban yourself. Now do you see how retarded you are? Oh wait... there is not hope of you actually seeing something so obvious.

    I do not like threads titled "Faggots" -- even if inside is a bunch of sticks of wood. I do not like "faygoats" - because even though dmitry says it means nothing it obviously does, or he wouldn't fucking do it.
    I said what it means. I said it directly. It means all the things faggot does but is intended to have none of the homophobic ramifications. You are projecting again. YOU chose to have it mean something else... not me. To me... you are a Faygoat personified. Just so we are clear, by that I mean a pussified man who likes women. Pussified in the extreme though.

    Go to any workplace walk around talking about "faygoats" -- tell me how long it is before you're hauled up to HR for a little chat about conversations appropriate to the environment.
    Really cause I have worked in plenty of places where "you are a fucking cunt faggot" is fine. See, again, you are just applying your own little prejudices to a message board. We are not an office environment and should not act like one.

    We wish to make Graffe's an environment appropriate for all.
    and I know this place isn't a "workplace" it's a private club... that has standards at the door. Dmitry, pushes those. On purpose.
    No it's not. It's a public forum. Don't be so stupid.
    Last edited by DmitrytheWizzy; April 17th, 2011 at 05:15 AM.

  10. #70
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    I said what it means. I said it directly. It means all the things faggot does but is intended to have none of the homophobic ramifications.
    What does a reasonable person in the general public think when they see the thread titled "here are some pictures of Faggots?"

    The content of the thread is irrelevant at that point, all that there is is the thread title.
    It's a public forum
    Which gives the impression to the "Public" that this is a homophobic friendly site.

    and no it's not a "public forum"... it's a private club with public membership. Graffe's has rules, which you agree to abide by when posting here yes?

    You are free to follow those rules, you are free to work within the ruleset to change those rules you do not agree with, you are free to leave.

    Graffe's relies on donations from it's members to stay operating. Graffe's does not rely on public funds. Graffe's is a privately owned and operated website.



    Now do you see how retarded you are?
    I see you have no argument but an insult worth of a 3rd grader. Retarded? Seriously? Grow up.
    I've got beer to drink and You guys are wasting my time.

  11. #71
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ackar View Post
    Sorry but these guys just won't get it. They're stuck in the same risk averse pattern Voca set as the SOP around here.
    I don't think that the poor execution of 'civility moderation' has anything to do with risk aversion nor with Delores' weak defense of Dmitry's behavior.
    Every married man is wrong. We just wait for the wife to tell us when, where, and about what.

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  12. #72
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Quote Originally Posted by DmitrytheWizzy View Post
    I said what it means. I said it directly. It means all the things faggot does but is intended to have none of the homophobic ramifications. You are projecting again. YOU chose to have it mean something else... not me.
    Quote Originally Posted by DmitrytheWizzy View Post
    Here, I am directly telling you all... I am not homophobic. I just play one so that you dumbasses can think for one tiny second about how hypocritical and biased your position on the use of language is.
    You can't say "I'm deliberately acting like a homophobe", and then claim "oh, you're just mis-interpreting what I said - I never meant that". If you are playing a homophobic troll (regardless of your motivation), then you did intend for "faggot" (and Faygoat, etc) to have homophobic ramifications.

  13. #73

    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarbonius View Post
    You can't say "I'm deliberately acting like a homophobe", and then claim "oh, you're just mis-interpreting what I said - I never meant that".
    1. You and most people here are too stupid to understand "examples that prove the absurdity of the rule" as an argument.

    2. I never claimed you misinterpreted. I claimed you and most people here were too biased and stupid to understand.

  14. #74

    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melcar View Post
    What does a reasonable person in the general public think when they see the thread titled "here are some pictures of Faggots?"
    Why should I care about "members of the public" think? Oh wait you have conflated "public message board" with "members of the public?" That is retarded.

    PS Public forums can be privately owned and have rules. IE Message boards newpapers public meeting spaces rented by towns for meetings.

    Also, if we actually had rules people might actually follow them but since no mod does I see no reason why anyone else should.
    Last edited by DmitrytheWizzy; April 17th, 2011 at 09:51 AM.

  15. #75
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Quote Originally Posted by DmitrytheWizzy View Post
    1. You and most people here are too stupid to understand "examples that prove the absurdity of the rule" as an argument.
    The argument is fine, and really isn't that complicated. If you had presented it as a hypothetical example to highlight a problem with the rules, rather than posting it "in character" as a homophobic troll, it might have been convincing.

    Quote Originally Posted by DmitrytheWizzy View Post
    2. I never claimed you misinterpreted. I claimed you and most people here were too biased and stupid to understand.
    No, you directly claimed that the problem was on the interpretation side.
    Quote Originally Posted by DmitrytheWizzy View Post
    YOU chose to have it mean something else... not me.

  16. #76

    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    To stupid to properly interpret then. if that makes you happy. Too stupid to and really, too biased with your liberal bias. You gayhuggery is absurd.

  17. #77
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    I do find it interesting that the rules you object to are not gay-specific. They would apply equally well to religious or race related comments.

    It is curious that you aren't willing to make comments about "blackhuggery" or "jewhuggery", for the sake of "examples that prove the absurdity of the rule".

  18. #78

    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarbonius View Post
    I do find it interesting that the rules you object to are not gay-specific. They would apply equally well to religious or race related comments.

    It is curious that you aren't willing to make comments about "blackhuggery" or "jewhuggery", for the sake of "examples that prove the absurdity of the rule".
    Because no one goes out of the way to protect those classes unreasonably. Just the opposite, jews can be roundly derided here with no repercussions.

  19. #79
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Quote Originally Posted by DmitrytheWizzy View Post
    Because no one goes out of the way to protect those classes unreasonably. Just the opposite, jews can be roundly derided here with no repercussions.
    So it's not the rule itself, then. It's the unequal application of the rule to a specific group that you object to.

    Back that up. Cite one example of mods/admins going out of the way to protect gays unreasonably, OTHER than the threads you have started to prove that very point.

    Alternatively, maybe you should start posting racist threads to compare the mod reaction - to verify that the rule is indeed being enforced differently for different groups.

  20. #80
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Quote Originally Posted by DmitrytheWizzy View Post
    Because no one goes out of the way to protect those classes unreasonably. Just the opposite, jews can be roundly derided here with no repercussions.
    This is what you say; but if you attacked a racial or ethnic group the way you attack gay people you would be banned permanently. You specifically attack people that this board, god knows why, allows you to with relatively minor repercussions.

    I don't really care what the board rules are or how a hostile environment is defined. I'll just ask you as a person to a person to stop. Dmitry you make Graffes an unpleasant place for me. Please stop targeting gay people to make your point.

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