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Thread: What exactly is a hostile environment?

  1. #41
    Ancient Arcanist
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Were those Ackar threads reported? Were Dmitry's posts reported?
    Life has taught us that love does not consist in gazing at each other, but in looking outward together in the same direction.

  2. #42
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Voca View Post
    This! Having a goal which one sometimes meets but sometimes fails at does not make one a hypocrite. It just makes one human.
    LOL. When there are rules and guidelines to be followed it most certainly is hypocritical cronyism.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dru View Post
    How is it unreasonable for someone to be offended by you when your stated goal is to try and offend people?
    To be fair, I believe he stated his goal was to provoke thought.


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  4. #44
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunal View Post
    Hostile environment.

    Graffes? Not sure there has ever been a time when we were all lubby dubby to each other without any hostility.
    Not in the 5 years I've been here.

  5. #45
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    OK let me see if I can lay this out a little better.
    4) No express Racism, Anti-Semitism or Homophobia. This rule shall not be construed to prohibit legitimate discussion of controversial issues such as Affirmative Action, the Israel and Palestine Issue, or Same Sex Marriage.
    "Here are a couple of faggots" is homophobic as a thread title. "I was just jokin, here's some wood" doesn't make that title any less homophobic. A new poster (or your parents or kids) coming to graffes seeing "Here are a couple of faggots" as a thread title is going to form a very quick impression about this place. Leaving these be, when they're obviously easy to interpret the normal way they should be interpreted, changes the environment of this place to one that appears to be hostile toward homosexuals. That's what I'm talking when I mention a hostile environment.

    What I mean is that not taking action when he does this sort of thing turns this place into something it ought not be, and something I am certain Graffe wouldn't want his name attached to. I realize that last bit means less than nothing to some of you, but it means a whole lot to me - part of my role as caretaker of this nuthouse is to make sure it properly reflects the legacy of the person who put it together, since without that this community would never have formed.

    If he'd have chosen "niggardly" as his fake dragon and then started posting pictures of lawn jockeys or 1910 racist cartoons he would have been treated the same way, even if he were using the same "oh I'm just trying to be funny" "oh I'm just trying to provoke thought" excuses. Gays are no more or less protected than anyone else, they just happen to be the group Dmitry has chosen to rail against.

    "Assfucking homo's fuck you all!! " is a homophobic statement. There's no getting around it. In either case if he was interested in discussion there are any number of ways he could have generated it other than the way that violates Rule 4.

    These are a couple of recent examples. I'm sure members of the G/L community can think to a number of other examples going back a couple of years now. I do not pretend to want Dmitry to stop commenting on whatever topic he wants to comment on within the rule set that you all have agreed upon. What I do want is to ensure the manner of his doing so does not violate that rule set and that in the course of that violation this place doesn't turn into something it ought not to become.

    Alternatively, any of the rules can be changed. Voca worked her behind off to ensure that was an option. If folks want the rule set changed/improved then please please PLEASE take some actual initiative to change it. That is how we change things around here, by changing the rule set. We do not change things around here by trying to be shocking.

  6. #46
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunal View Post
    Were those Ackar threads reported? Were Dmitry's posts reported?
    Dmitry's posts definately were as admitted by Appollo at the least. Ackar's is less clear. I have been tempted to on occassion but never have. Maybe a mod/admin can state if anyone has without revealing names.

  7. #47
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunal View Post
    Were those Ackar threads reported? Were Dmitry's posts reported?
    While I called Ackar out on not completely posting one of his linked stories, I've never felt the need to report one of his threads. Dmitry on the other hand I've reported twice in the past few weeks because his shit even stinks to my nose.

    Now I'm sure my pet stalker will report me for using the word "shit".
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  8. #48
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Our rules live up to SOX level expectations for review of process and proceedure!

  9. #49
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apallohadas View Post
    While I called Ackar out on not completely posting one of his linked stories, I've never felt the need to report one of his threads. Dmitry on the other hand I've reported twice in the past few weeks because his shit even stinks to my nose.

    Now I'm sure my pet stalker will report me for using the word "shit".
    Thanks. At least it wasn't a mod doing the reporting, that always used to irritate me.
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  10. #50
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Dmitry trolled the admins, and he got them perfectly. I knew it the moment I read the thread title and the linked article.

    The thread title: "Android Marketplace Links Apps for Pedophiles and Gay". The title of the linked article, dated yesterday, in The Atlantic: "The Curious Connection Between Apps for Gay Men and Sex Offenders". Had Dmitry posted the actual article title it would have been considered worse than what he did post. The article is current (he didn't dig for some stale article to make his "point"), on a mainstream website, and is completely pro-gay. It's a topic worthy of discussion. Anyone who had bothered to read the link would have seen that Dmitry was trolling for a response with his thread title, knowing that someone would knee-jerk react to him posting anything with "gay" in the title and not read the link.

    If Dmitry wants to play semantic games, like his "faygoat" pics which served no useful purpose other than trying to rile folks up, suspend him yet again. But when he posts an interesting article worthy of debate, and doesn't get trashy with his title just to make a point, I'd expect the mods to leave it alone and not say "but, but, it's Dmitry" to justify an action that would not be taken towards other posters. God, it's not like he won't cross the line eventually if you're so eager to suspend him. Bonus irony points for Grindel, the guy who posted (summary version) "Jew go home" to Torcer to finally get him to leave Graffe's, to accuse someone else of creating a "hostile environment".

  11. #51
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    I think everyone remembers my stance on Dmitry. His antics haven't amused me for years.

    Dmitry's idea of posting an interesting thread in OT is 1) Go to google.com 2) search for gay news 3) post link to article with inciteful title 4) repeat until banned.

    While he states his intent is not to incite anyone, the fact is he does incite other posters here and simply ignores that reality.

  12. #52
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Heh summary version. That's OK, I can take it.

    If he had posted the title from the article (which I had already seen) I wouldn't have touched it because there would not have been any editorializing. Are you arguing that Dmitry has never, ever linked homosexuals and pedophiles before? History never happens I guess, just now. No, he has a history of doing just that, his thread title was editorial and did just that, and it was his very first post coming back from his suspension. Of COURSE he was trolling me, I get that. But he doesn't get some pass from the board rules just because he's trolling yet another admin.

  13. #53
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Delores Mulva View Post
    Dmitry trolled the admins, and he got them perfectly. I knew it the moment I read the thread title and the linked article.

    The thread title: "Android Marketplace Links Apps for Pedophiles and Gay". The title of the linked article, dated yesterday, in The Atlantic: "The Curious Connection Between Apps for Gay Men and Sex Offenders". Had Dmitry posted the actual article title it would have been considered worse than what he did post. The article is current (he didn't dig for some stale article to make his "point"), on a mainstream website, and is completely pro-gay. It's a topic worthy of discussion. Anyone who had bothered to read the link would have seen that Dmitry was trolling for a response with his thread title, knowing that someone would knee-jerk react to him posting anything with "gay" in the title and not read the link.

    If Dmitry wants to play semantic games, like his "faygoat" pics which served no useful purpose other than trying to rile folks up, suspend him yet again. But when he posts an interesting article worthy of debate, and doesn't get trashy with his title just to make a point, I'd expect the mods to leave it alone and not say "but, but, it's Dmitry" to justify an action that would not be taken towards other posters. God, it's not like he won't cross the line eventually if you're so eager to suspend him. Bonus irony points for Grindel, the guy who posted (summary version) "Jew go home" to Torcer to finally get him to leave Graffe's, to accuse someone else of creating a "hostile environment".
    You think it's cute that he creates incendiary thread titles then links to some harmless 'wink wink' nudging pointed at his usual targets.

    Others just don't agree with you.

    And I fail to see how this keeps swinging around to Torcer. Someone's going to have to explain that to me again. Did the board become hostile to Jews somehow?
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  14. #54
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apallohadas View Post
    While I called Ackar out on not completely posting one of his linked stories, I've never felt the need to report one of his threads.
    And as I said in that thread, I did not redact a fucking thing from that article. I copy/pasted the article for the OP exactly as it appeared on CNN at the time I made the thread.

    And then when they revised the story after more info came out, I posted CNN's revised/spellchecked article. I did not change the article at all from what CNN had posted.

  15. #55
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ackar View Post
    And as I said in that thread, I did not redact a fucking thing from that article. I copy/pasted the article for the OP exactly as it appeared on CNN at the time I made the thread.

    And then when they revised the story after more info came out, I posted CNN's revised/spellchecked article. I did not change the article at all from what CNN had posted.
    Relax. I know. I've seen them do that before. The only way to tell is that the link url changes slightly.
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  16. #56
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    FYI
    I'm an asshole at times, especially over last year, 'cause I'm sick
    I know this, I frequently apologize for it, sigh

    however I also have a very weird outlook, use of language and cultural backgroudn different to most boardies, so often step on toes a bit :P Er, hm...better be careufl in case we end up making that Valhalla Marine an Eightoes !

    but usually there's no harm meant by moi (except to non-boardie really evil bastards) and I'm trying to make multi-layered meanings/points by humour, parable and rhetorical and sometimes self-warning/grumbling posts.

    In other words, Dmitry, you could do your cause a HELL of a lot better than the blunt tool you are using! FFS: use a ball pein hammer rather than a wreckingball if you must be so blunt

    I yak not as a textual "university debate", but as if we were in a pub or riverbank, gabbing away with each other over a pint or such. You'd get bitchslapped for that repeated excess you've bene using, lol, wouldn't you?

    You pointed out to me, that "coloured" has a very nasty connotation in the USA, yer not scumbag, neither am I, just different cultures/outlooks.
    I wind up gay pals...but I do realize they, like ANY person/group have sensitive issues they don't like being inflamed
    such varies person to person never mind between groups
    for example
    one gay perosn may enjoy being ribbed, another may not as he's been abused so much
    same with black, Jewish or whatever.
    I don't knwo what you've seen perosnally or friends have suffered, but I've seen fair bit of such crap and so you do feel sympathy..yet i bloody loathe "political correctness", hell of a difference between not tolerating bigotry, and becoming a bigot or rather dictatorial and blind, by reverse.

    I snapped at you once quite unreasonably, which I was sorry about, completely un called for, I was just really bad that day and got sparked off by an otherwise innocous ribbing.
    we ALL screw up. We ALL have really sore points.
    I'm quite happy to debate your basic premise with ya, but you gotta realize some folk take stuff personally or over react

    I'm really sorry Torcer left, sigh. I genuinely like they guy, just he goes batty on the subject of isreal (and hey I go batty on other subjects too :P)
    I don't mind folk going batty on stuff, long as they ain't mean. Your excess is starting to feel "mean".
    Yak about yer point, please? Rather than spam the baord with offensive titles, hm?

  17. #57
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    A hostile environment is subjective. The fact is we have lost many interesting posters here because of Dmitry's continual games. People who have specifically stated they are leaving because of him. That means he created a hostile environment towards them. The Dmitry who tilted at SOE for pointy hats was a fun guy. The one tilting at homosexuality these days is in violation of rule 4.
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  18. #58
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    How to tell if you are in an hostile environment:

    Step 1: Look around. Is Dmitry there? Then you are in an hostile environment.

  19. #59
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grindel
    If he had posted the title from the article (which I had already seen) I wouldn't have touched it because there would not have been any editorializing.
    Can you point to the editorializing? Are you hanging your hat on the use of the word "pedophiles" instead of the phrase "sex offenders"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grindel
    Are you arguing that Dmitry has never, ever linked homosexuals and pedophiles before?
    I don't have to make that argument, because the posting rules don't prohibit someone who has been suspended for something from making a legitimate post on the same subject. As much as it may pain you to do so, you actually have to re-visit every post he makes and judge it on its own merits. I wouldn't worry, Dmitry will screw up and cross the line. He always does. But this post isn't the one that crossed the line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grindel
    Of COURSE he was trolling me, I get that. But he doesn't get some pass from the board rules just because he's trolling yet another admin.
    We just had an election for mods. I didn't see your name on the list. Which mod did you get permission from to moderate Dmitry's thread, in their stead, so their stance on this issue can be remembered next election? If you didn't get permission from one of the new mods, what position is it that you hold that allows you to mod at will, and why do we bother electing mods when an unelected person can moderate at will? And if you aren't in a position that should allow you to mod at will, could you please restore Dmitry's original post so a real mod can make the decision for which they were elected?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apallohadas
    You think it's cute that he creates incendiary thread titles then links to some harmless 'wink wink' nudging pointed at his usual targets.
    No, I think each thread has to be judged on its own merits. In this case he linked to a current, pro-gay article which was of interest to a bunch of tech-savvy geeks like us. As I said in my last post, and this one, and will likely have to repeat again and again before it sinks in: he will screw up. He always does. This wasn't the screw-up.

    And, for the record, what I think is "cute" is a straight guy reporting a post for making a hostile environment for gays, followed by a non-mod moderating the post. That's all kinds of cute. If someone who would actually be impacted by Dmitry's bile shot me a PM and said that his post was awful, like Backster or Maledict, that's one thing. But unless you turn this thread into a coming out party, Apallo....

  20. #60
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    Re: What exactly is a hostile environment?

    He's the top dog now or didnt you know.

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