View Poll Results: Should Schezar be a mod?

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  • Yes

    31 70.45%
  • No

    13 29.55%
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Thread: Schezar April 5 Vote / Discussion Thread

  1. #1
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    Schezar April 5 Vote / Discussion Thread

    Should Schezar be a moderator? Election will be held beginning April 5th.

  2. #2
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    Re: Schezar April 5 Election Discussion Thread

    I feel that he moderates weak insults too heavily. I think there is some grey area between "you're fucking annoying" and "you fucking cunt," and I think that Schezar's line is far too close to the left than I would prefer.

  3. #3
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    Re: Schezar April 5 Election Discussion Thread

    Agree.

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    Re: Schezar April 5 Election Discussion Thread

    I do appreciate the feedback. When a personal attack (where it's an actual attack, which can get fuzzy) is reported the rules are that something is supposed to be done, whether it's asking the person to change it, editing, or hiving the post to rants. We as a community decided that we wanted general to be civil when the rules were created and voted on. If you feel that should be revisited you're more than welcome to suggest a change to them.

    FWIW, Alikat, I hope you'll accept next time someone nominates you. I think you'd be a good mod. I may not always agree with you, but I respect your opinions and the thought you put into them.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Schezar April 5 Vote / Discussion Thread

    Yes (I'm only responding with yes so my vote is registered as to who I voted "Yes" for)
    For copyright purposes, all of my posts are covered under the "Do What The Fuck You Want To Public License"
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  6. #6
    Computer says no
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    Re: Schezar April 5 Vote / Discussion Thread

    He's a very straightforward guy. Open and honest. Gets a yes from me.

  7. #7
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    Re: Schezar April 5 Vote / Discussion Thread

    Obviously, I voted no. He's proven time and time again that with me, he can't separate our grudge from his ability to moderate.
    Every married man is wrong. We just wait for the wife to tell us when, where, and about what.

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    Re: Schezar April 5 Election Discussion Thread

    I don't think that this is really the appropriate place or time to start a discussion about what the general forum is about. The problem is though:
    Quote Originally Posted by Schezar View Post
    I do appreciate the feedback. When a personal attack (where it's an actual attack, which can get fuzzy) is reported the rules are that something is supposed to be done, whether it's asking the person to change it, editing, or hiving the post to rants. We as a community decided that we wanted general to be civil when the rules were created and voted on. If you feel that should be revisited you're more than welcome to suggest a change to them.
    There's a tag on top of that forum that specifically states: "beware: this is a mature forum". So: sorry Schezar, but I don't think your take on this is, or has been, correct.
    "Better an honest enemy than a shitty friend that's robbing you blind."

  9. #9
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    Re: Schezar April 5 Election Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Etelka View Post
    There's a tag on top of that forum that specifically states: "beware: this is a mature forum". So: sorry Schezar, but I don't think your take on this is, or has been, correct.
    The only things I have actively modded are when people insult each other directly, as that has long been established as a violation of rule 6. Even then only when reported. That's as far as I care to go, to be honest. I primarily ran initially to help nuke spam. My guiding thought about modding is 'follow the rules' and 'don't do things you'd feel embarrassed explaining'. If I get voted out again I don't particularly mind. This has always been about community service to me. If I'm not wanted in that capacity, I have no complaints. There are still a few people here worth talking with and debating and getting new ideas from.

    Apallo: You've made that assertion before, and I would ask you to offer some proof. I won't pretend I have much respect left for you after the way you've tried to argue via mud slinging at me recently, but I have no particular bias against you. I honestly can't recall anything of yours I've edited that wasn't a personal attack, and even then I can only recall one. I know I asked you to edit some things before that, but that was to try to prevent things from devolving into personal attacks. I might be wrong, which is why I'm asking.
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    Re: Schezar April 5 Election Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Schezar View Post
    The only things I have actively modded are when people insult each other directly, as that has long been established as a violation of rule 6. Even then only when reported. That's as far as I care to go, to be honest. I primarily ran initially to help nuke spam. My guiding thought about modding is 'follow the rules' and 'don't do things you'd feel embarrassed explaining'. If I get voted out again I don't particularly mind. This has always been about community service to me. If I'm not wanted in that capacity, I have no complaints. There are still a few people here worth talking with and debating and getting new ideas from.
    I really do not take joy from this discussion, but rule 6 is:

    6) Be Civil: While vehement disagreement is part of the tradition of Graffes and is strongly encouraged, posts should conform to a minimal level of common decency. This is a constraint on form and not content.
    Which really leaves plenty of room for judgment for a moderator. It certainly does NOT mean that, as you stated before:

    When a personal attack (where it's an actual attack, which can get fuzzy) is reported the rules are that something is supposed to be done, whether it's asking the person to change it, editing, or hiving the post to rants. We as a community decided that we wanted general to be civil when the rules were created and voted on.
    There is a vast difference between "conform to a minimum level of decency" and "do not do anything that some people might consider a personal attack". I'm sorry, but "rule number six" simply does not cover acting on anything that someone might have perceived as offensive.

    Of course you have real issues of people dropping below that minimum level, and obviously that's a completely different can of worms, but you simply cannot hide behind #6 as if that one absolves you of using any sort of discretion.

    And yes, I see it as a form of community service myself, and please take note that I don't have a personal problem with you. I just disagree with your take on this issue, and hope that I convince you that my take might be better. And perhaps this issue might finally turn this election into something that's actually interesting to read.
    "Better an honest enemy than a shitty friend that's robbing you blind."

  11. #11
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    Re: Schezar April 5 Vote / Discussion Thread

    You feel that rule 6 is some sort of magic catchall. I've mentioned several times the bullshit that you've sent me warnings for or outright changed yourself. Unlike you, I won't pretend to have a shred of respect left. I think you're just a petty little Mexican hating man dying for a chance to 'get his mod on'.
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    Re: Schezar April 5 Vote / Discussion Thread

    Please people take the rhetoric down a bit.

    I'm in a tough spot because I don't think it's proper for me to endorse or vilify any of our candidates, but I think it's important to make a note on this Ap-Schezar thing. Schezar doesn't mod like everybody else, but mods aren't required to - the voting process weeds that out for good or ill. Some people will like how one mods, others won't. But in Ap's case, there have been a LOT of reports from a couple of individuals regarding him over several months. I won't be naming them of course, and you'd probably never know based on who's reporting posts directed at whom. Some get actioned, others don't. TBH I think some of it is a case of perception based on quantity rather than any active bias. If I'm off-base here the mods are free to correct me. Note this has nothing to do with non-mod interactions between these two, it's just what I've observed in modding interactions.

  13. #13
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    Re: Schezar April 5 Vote / Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Apallohadas View Post
    You feel that rule 6 is some sort of magic catchall. I've mentioned several times the bullshit that you've sent me warnings for or outright changed yourself. Unlike you, I won't pretend to have a shred of respect left. I think you're just a petty little Mexican hating man dying for a chance to 'get his mod on'.
    Well, maybe 2 for 4 there. I am neither 'Mexican hating' nor dying for a chance to 'get my mod on'. Now if you're not going to back your assertions up about me being unfairly biased against you, I'm not sure why you bothered bringing them up other than to sling more mud at me. I gave you a chance to bring some 'PROOF PROOF!' to the discussion because at least one person I respect had echoed your sentiments. This is the right place for this discussion. The one time I remember that I actively modded you was because it was a direct attack against another poster. I would have modded the same if it had been anyone else that had been reported.

    If I was going to actively mod based on bias I would not have asked you to change your posts prior to that, as they were steering things towards attacks against the one person I truly dislike on these forums, aka Dmitry. Rule 6 is not intended to prevent discourse between people here, but it is intended to prevent open attacks against each other. We're free to insult Rebecca Black (unless she becomes a member here) or the south, but we're not allowed to openly attack and insult each other. That's pretty much dictionary incivility.

    Grindel: Thank you for offering the information you can. I stand by my actions as a mod, and again will harbor no rancor if I'm not the sort of mod people want.
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  14. #14
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    Re: Schezar April 5 Vote / Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Schezar View Post
    Well, maybe 2 for 4 there. I am neither 'Mexican hating' nor dying for a chance to 'get my mod on'. Now if you're not going to back your assertions up about me being unfairly biased against you, I'm not sure why you bothered bringing them up other than to sling more mud at me. I gave you a chance to bring some 'PROOF PROOF!' to the discussion because at least one person I respect had echoed your sentiments. This is the right place for this discussion. The one time I remember that I actively modded you was because it was a direct attack against another poster. I would have modded the same if it had been anyone else that had been reported.
    Okay, then let's talk this out here.
    Would it be possible to see some sort of example of that direct attack? Because:

    If I was going to actively mod based on bias I would not have asked you to change your posts prior to that, as they were steering things towards attacks against the one person I truly dislike on these forums, aka Dmitry. Rule 6 is not intended to prevent discourse between people here, but it is intended to prevent open attacks against each other. We're free to insult Rebecca Black (unless she becomes a member here) or the south, but we're not allowed to openly attack and insult each other. That's pretty much dictionary incivility.
    Again:
    1. Rule number 6 is not about outright prohibiting attacks on people or posters here. It even states explicitly "this is a constraint on form, not content."
    2. Well, we are allowed to attack and insult each other, as long as we keep the attacks to a minimum level of common decency.

    It's really about the old difference between "Apallo is a moron" and "Apallo should be shot and his mother is a fucking whore". (Nothing personal Apallo.) One is an personal insult, but then again: "mature forum", and in the other one I have left any sense of decency whatsoever.
    "Better an honest enemy than a shitty friend that's robbing you blind."

  15. #15
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    Re: Schezar April 5 Vote / Discussion Thread

    First off, typing and cut and paste on an iPad is just painfully slow. Secondly, why ask when you have access to a forum filled with reports and presumably your response. At least one of the threads is gone or moved beyond my access.
    Every married man is wrong. We just wait for the wife to tell us when, where, and about what.

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  16. #16
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    Re: Schezar April 5 Vote / Discussion Thread

    I have reviewed them, which is why I was confused the first time you brought it up. I have never modded you any differently than anyone else, nor would I going forward. I'm asking you to bring your examples forward so you can show me and everyone else what exactly I am supposed to have done that was biased against you. Either you'll be right and I'll owe you an apology or you'll be wrong and we can move on.
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  17. #17
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    Re: Schezar April 5 Vote / Discussion Thread

    So then despite your having access that I don't, you still Fnag your way forward?

    Very well:

    Idiot
    Moron
    Homophobe
    Pussy

    Four words that I've been singled out for moderation that probably no one else has.

    So if you're not going to grow a sack and start linking your proof that I've been rampaging through the woods with my flame thrower, then I'd love that useless apology and for you to leave me the fuck alone.

    You guys do keep the moderated bits right?
    Every married man is wrong. We just wait for the wife to tell us when, where, and about what.

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  18. #18
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    Re: Schezar April 5 Vote / Discussion Thread

    Yes, sort of. I think I pruned some of the edits that were over 2 years old a few months ago. They're not easy to search through though, you kind of need to either know what the post is, or what exactly was edited.

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    Re: Schezar April 5 Vote / Discussion Thread

    The googlesearch '"you idiot" site: www.graffe.com' has about 179 results. '"you moron" site: www.graffe.com' has 79 of them. At least the ones at the top of the search seem pretty legitimate, they're replies to idiotic and/or moronic statements. Neither of them are a problem with that famous rule # 6 that keeps being brought up.

    It's a bit tough to search for posts where those words have been deleted though. Why is that actually needed?
    "Better an honest enemy than a shitty friend that's robbing you blind."

  20. #20
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    Re: Schezar April 5 Vote / Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Apallohadas View Post
    So then despite your having access that I don't, you still Fnag your way forward?

    Very well:

    Idiot
    Moron
    Homophobe
    Pussy

    Four words that I've been singled out for moderation that probably no one else has.

    So if you're not going to grow a sack and start linking your proof that I've been rampaging through the woods with my flame thrower, then I'd love that useless apology and for you to leave me the fuck alone.

    You guys do keep the moderated bits right?
    How is it Fnagging to ask you for a post link where you feel I wronged you? I just looked in my outbox and only found two instances where I asked you to change something.

    The first was 10/18, and you were going after Dmitry for talking about Obama's balls. I personally thought it was funny, but the thread was going places and your post was reported so I asked you to change it.

    The second was February 7th when you were attacking Maurley in this thread.

    There may have been one other case, as I forget who all was fighting, but one thread that got reported I deleted several personal attacks.

    So a whopping 2 or 3 times I modded you in the past 6 months. Now by all means please offer some evidence that I've modded against you specifically in a biased way. You're certainly not the only person I have asked to edit something or who has been edited by myself or the other mods for civility. I'm not a mind reader, so I really have no clue what you think I did that was a) wrong according to the mod guidelines and previous cases, and b) biased against you. Expecting the other person to prove a negative when you're the one making an accusation isn't how it works I'm afraid. You accused me of wronging you, now please back it up with some PROOF PROOF!
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