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Thread: Dear Users. Read Before Posting.

  1. #41
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    Re: Dear Users. Read Before Posting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melcar View Post
    Is that how it works? Or do we just make shit up as we go along?
    Continuing the outlandish real world comparisons, works fine for SCOTUS!
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    Re: Dear Users. Read Before Posting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vdou View Post
    I disagree vehemently. If anything, we could use a little more thread locking around here.
    Why lock a thread when it could be moved?

    And what about my original point about moderator conduct?

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    Re: Dear Users. Read Before Posting.

    For the most part, yeah. He could have just started doing it and then when people complained he could have just said "get over it".
    No, he shouldn't have said "get over it." A simple explanation specifying what was wrong with the post and why it was removed would be more effective.
    Last edited by Goladus; October 12th, 2009 at 01:33 PM. Reason: too many commas

  4. #44
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    Re: Dear Users. Read Before Posting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goladus View Post

    And what about my original point about moderator conduct?
    It's hard to take anyones response seriously when your initial reply to this post was "go **** yourself".

    But more seriously - yes, Mdar's post is a bit tart. That's how Mdar posts full stop. Given the levels of uncivility, and the sheer amount of reporting and moderation that's been needed in here over the past couple of weeks, I'm not surprised. You don't need to swear at people to discuss a rules issue, or a policy, and I find it slightly vexing that you don't comment at all on the levels of uncivility you and others have contribued to in this forum, but at the same time you're protesting because a mod put a post up that you consider might be vaguely partronising. People have been told, and repeatedly told, about the levels of moderation in this forum and yet still break those rules and expect the mods to just neatly hive the posts off to rants. That clearly wasn't working, so Mdar put up a notice saying that we were going to be more actively moderating in here, and would be locking threads / removing posts if needed.

    The fact you actually have to go through a post, highlighting and bolding the points where you think it was insulting to other posters is probably a good marker to show that it really wasn't.
    Last edited by Maledict; October 12th, 2009 at 01:39 PM.

  5. #45
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    Re: Dear Users. Read Before Posting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goladus View Post
    Why lock a thread when it could be moved?

    And what about my original point about moderator conduct?
    Why move it? There doesn't need to be discussion about this. Discussing the fucking minutiae of EVERY LITTLE FUCKING DETAIL is why this forum has so much fucking drama.

    Mods aren't here to be your friends or coddle you or make sure you have a warm blanky at night. If it seems curt or smug, get the fuck over it. Maybe you're just taking it a little personally because you have a throbbing boner for Mdar.

    Rules need to be created and enforced, especially in this forum where all the bullshit of the past 3 pages SHOULDN'T be happening.
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  6. #46
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    Re: Dear Users. Read Before Posting.

    Why move it?
    Because that's what the "Moderation" guidelines say should happen.

    Posts in violation of the Civility rule should not be deleted but should be moved to rants.
    Personally, I think the whole thread should move not just the post -- but that's me.
    I've got beer to drink and You guys are wasting my time.

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    Re: Dear Users. Read Before Posting.

    If moving the thread only results in a thread in rants attacking a single poster, and there's no other content in there, I'd delete the posts rather than move it. We don't condone threats created purely for the purpose of attacking another poster, even in rants, so if the posts have no content other than "**** you Voca, you ********", we'll delete them rather than move them.

  8. #48
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    Re: Dear Users. Read Before Posting.

    Moving posts can be a pain, and the point of this forum is to have clear, focused discussion that does not get distracted by personal attacks, sniping, fighting, and various derails that can be entertaining and meaningful but tend to get in the way of decision-making and policy. To that end, threads started here should have a clear, narrow purpose so that participants can focus so that departures from the main topic will be unambiguous. Facts and logic can be analyzed without all the background noise.

    Kaelon's thread is a radical, sweeping proposal that is likely to uncover a many interesting questions and meaningful discussion. The thread did not have a clear, narrow purpose. A thread like Kaelon's is valuable for the discussion it provides, the questions it uncovers and the directions it takes. There is not so much benefit to strict enforcement of topic in a thread like that. You can eliminate fighting and side-threads (like when I called out Maledict) without hurting much, but beyond that the topic requirement is a heavy burden on productive discussion.

    That exactly describes the sort of thread that is worthwhile to have in General Discussion. Not rants. Not Site & Forum Admin.
    Last edited by Goladus; October 12th, 2009 at 02:13 PM.

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    Re: Dear Users. Read Before Posting.

    Discussing the fucking minutiae of EVERY LITTLE FUCKING DETAIL is why this forum has so much fucking drama.
    This forum has drama because people are disrespectful and get upset.

    I'm not debating the mintiae of every little detail, except where it makes sense in order to address a demonstrated misunderstanding.

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    Re: Dear Users. Read Before Posting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maledict View Post
    It's hard to take anyones response seriously when your initial reply to this post was "go **** yourself".
    I did not intend for the initial point to be taken seriously. Mdar's original post should not be taken seriously (and, in fact, I don't think he intended for it to be taken that seriously).

    But more seriously - yes, Mdar's post is a bit tart. That's how Mdar posts full stop. Given the levels of uncivility, and the sheer amount of reporting and moderation that's been needed in here over the past couple of weeks, I'm not surprised. You don't need to swear at people to discuss a rules issue, or a policy, and I find it slightly vexing that you don't comment at all on the levels of uncivility you and others have contribued to in this forum, but at the same time you're protesting because a mod put a post up that you consider might be vaguely partronising. People have been told, and repeatedly told, about the levels of moderation in this forum and yet still break those rules and expect the mods to just neatly hive the posts off to rants. That clearly wasn't working, so Mdar put up a notice saying that we were going to be more actively moderating in here, and would be locking threads / removing posts if needed.
    Dealing with uncivility is your problem. If you're good at it people will be happy, if not they will be unhappy. If you think complaining about it will be effective then by all means continue. I will not bother you for very long. I do not have Dmitry's stamina.

  11. #51
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    Re: Dear Users. Read Before Posting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goladus View Post
    This forum has drama because people are disrespectful and get upset.

    I'm not debating the mintiae of every little detail, except where it makes sense in order to address a demonstrated misunderstanding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goladus View Post
    [1] Sarcasm. Funny joke, sure, but unnecessary. Clearly smug and condescending.

    [2] Mdar (or We, The Moderators Over You, the Plebes) knows best. Assumption that we are here to please them. As condescending as it gets.

    [3] To take away polite veneer from this statement, he's saying: I am basically going to mod however I want, and you're going to bend over and take it.

    [4] "You" statement: condescending.

    [5] Feigned graciousness saying that we "may" discuss the new policy in the thread. (Which got edited, incidentally. My initial attempt at humor was deleted as was the one reaction to it that I saw.)

    No, I am not projecting. Smug means excessively self-satisfied. Condescending means acting with excessive self-righteousness. Both are quite evident in a simple analysis of the language.

    I am not giving a huge pile of benefit of doubt. It's quite probable that Mdar simply doesn't know how to communicate the message in a way that is not needlessly disrespectful. But, he is the moderator. He's the one threatening to edit posts and issue warnings and suspensions.
    Huh?

    All of the minutiae is about "misunderstanding" the rules or how they apply.
    "If all wars were fought by octogenarians armed with nerf bats that would be much more civilized. And funny. Yes, I am a bad person." - Voca

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  12. #52
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    Re: Dear Users. Read Before Posting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maledict View Post
    If moving the thread only results in a thread in rants attacking a single poster, and there's no other content in there, I'd delete the posts rather than move it. We don't condone threats created purely for the purpose of attacking another poster, even in rants, so if the posts have no content other than "**** you Voca, you ********", we'll delete them rather than move them.
    And yet the poll about sleeping with someones sister is still there?

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    Re: Dear Users. Read Before Posting.

    And yet the poll about sleeping with someones sister is still there?
    I think it's someone's non-existant sister.
    I've got beer to drink and You guys are wasting my time.

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    Re: Dear Users. Read Before Posting.

    which was made with consent of the poster, as I recall.
    Ikeya: Lies. You moderate with oppressive bias.
    Rombus: man if that were only true
    Rombus: i would have banned claud 8 times over


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    Re: Dear Users. Read Before Posting.

    Lack of existence does not equal consent on her part.



    (Okay who has the latest flowchart to keep track of all this stuff?)

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    Re: Dear Users. Read Before Posting.

    Dealing with uncivility is your problem. If you're good at it people will be happy, if not they will be unhappy. If you think complaining about it will be effective then by all means continue. I will not bother you for very long. I do not have Dmitry's stamina.
    People generally are happy - but at the same time, we don't apoint moderators as punching bags, and I think a reminder was needed for this forum that people should be more civil here and try to stay on topic. Moderators are just normal posters aho are helping out a bit, they aren't the gods of the forum, and we don't elect them so we can then abuse them endlessly and expect them to robotically just keep the same thing time and time again. I hardly think this thread is "complaining" about it, it's merely pointing out that there has been a lot of unneeded uncivility in here recently and it's not necessery.

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    Re: Dear Users. Read Before Posting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maledict View Post
    People generally are happy - but at the same time, we don't apoint moderators as punching bags, and I think a reminder was needed for this forum that people should be more civil here and try to stay on topic. Moderators are just normal posters who are helping out a bit, they aren't the gods of the forum, and we don't elect them so we can then abuse them endlessly and expect them to robotically just keep the same thing time and time again. I hardly think this thread is "complaining" about it, it's merely pointing out that there has been a lot of unneeded uncivility in here recently and it's not necessery.
    Well put Mal.
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  18. #58
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    Re: Dear Users. Read Before Posting.

    Heh

    So the best way to prove that the OP wasn't smug nor condescending is to gang up on the decenter with smugness and condescension.

    Not that I agree or disagree with Gol, but after reading the thread, a theme that has been occurring more and more lately is sadly evident. But don't let me stop the 'us vs. them' party any further.

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    Re: Dear Users. Read Before Posting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Niellya View Post
    And yet the poll about sleeping with someones sister is still there?
    Just some background on that, since it was brought up.
    • There was a running joke that the target of that thread had a sister.
    • I PMed the target and made sure he had no RL sister, because I'd never make a poll like that if he had.
    • In his response he laughed it off and was encouraging.
    • Thus I posted the poll.
    • Laughs were had.

    It was all in good fun and with the consent of the targeted person. That = funny. Attacking someone's RL life or situation randomly and anonymously = not so funny.

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    Re: Dear Users. Read Before Posting.

    We, The Moderators Over You, the Plebes) knows best. Assumption that we are here to please them. As condescending as it gets.
    This is what pisses me off – the condescension. Forget that most of you are quite comfortable down here in the shit with the rest of us; you just don’t like it when the shit is flung your way. How is this for lack of civility - take your “I’m better than you” bullshit and shove it up your hypocritical and condescending asses.

    People are being *Ahem* “uncivil,” because you’re the fucking Keystone Cops, pretending to follow rules while making shit up and looking down on folks because they criticize you when you don’t get to do whatever the fuck you want. The tone of Mdar’s OP pretty well encapsulates the attitude of Moderation ever since we stupidly decided we needed it – surprise - when you elevate people above the community, they get full of themselves.

    As Ikeya is fond of saying, “It’s Just a Message Board.” Since the Mods treat this forum as SERIOUSLAND, I’ll take their condescension seriously. Yes, I expect a warning, and yes I’ll hound which “I’m better than you” hypocritical fucker gives it to me until the board closes down or I’m banned.

    Civility Rule, FFS, what a fucking joke that is and you are. We should rename it to the “Ignore 99% of the in civil nonsense that’s posted at Graffes and whip out the Civility Rule when its something I don’t like” Rule. Step the fuck off little men and women, this is a fucking Message Board and not only are none of you better than the rest of us, some of you are quite a bit worse. The last Mod who suspended me ended up threatening a woman in real life – that’s what I think of your condescension.

    .. and no, Sleeping with Someone’s sister is not a civil thread, that’s just one of the hundreds of examples of real incivility that goes unnoticed.
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