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Thread: Milaru - suspended for a week - lifted (see last post)

  1. #101
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    Re: Milaru - suspended for a week - lifted (see last post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Myngil View Post
    Wow, I was expecting something more like "I'll be in my bunk" but that's close enough for me to declare that troll a success. You constantly use little one liners or other bullshit in a way that can be seen as seeing/using/wanting women as fuck toys, but an acerbic posters usage of the word cunt is what cant be tolerated around here?

    This kool-aid is steeped in irony and the people have drunk too deeply.
    Oh bullshit, there is nothing offensive about implying sexual attraction, as long as it isn't harrassing in nature. It's considered complimentary among their kind (straight people). And you are in Rome, so why get offended when the Romans speak Latin?

    How can you even equate the two? One is intended as a friendly compliment implying that you are a sexually attractive person, and the other is essentially saying that you are defined by them as an organ they see as a receptacle for sperm and nothing more. Unless you suffer from Misandry, the former is not an insult like the latter one is.

  2. #102
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    Re: Milaru - suspended for a week - lifted (see last post)

    Oh come on, you're in California and you've never met the type of person that would react to lines so predictable you can almost set your watch to them in that fashion? Something complimentary would . . . actually be something to compliment a person on and "You make me want to masturbate" doesn't fall in to that category for many women.

    Has it offended me? not really, it was an example that was set up. Has it made me feel complimented? Again, not really. The behavior just makes me think "Guys are really, really dumb. I miss pussy so much" and move on.

  3. #103
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    Re: Milaru - suspended for a week - lifted (see last post)

    I still saw it as being a matter that we need an elevated level of decorum in the sys admin forum. And that Voca had asked him politely to stop and he ignored her. For those reasons I totally support the suspension.

    Thats consistent with other moderation in the sysadmin forum. Didn't have to do with the word or the use of the word in a sentence at all.
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  4. #104
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    Re: Milaru - suspended for a week - lifted (see last post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zedd View Post
    Isn't that word erm, more conversational in Europe? I was looking over that search that Mdar posted, and I saw Silverblade calling S-D the -C- word. It occurs to me that I've seen and heard people from the Europe speaking that way and it seems quite casual to them, whereas if Americans (and Canadians?) do it - we *know* what we're saying is pretty damned Taboo.
    It's often a good idea not to look to Silverblade for examples of normal European behavior.
    In Britain the word is highly offensive, as far as I know.
    Over here and in France I believe, it depends on the form. As a noun it's extremely offensive, as an adjective ("That's pretty c*nt what happened to your car") it's rather casual. And using it in such a way doesn't make sense, I know, but we do.
    Perhaps Europeans as a whole tend to be more on the Myngil-side of the spectrum-of-offensive-language-usage than on the Daph-side, could be, but in the languages that I know swear-words in, calling someone a c*nt/kut/trou/fotze is pretty damn offensive.

    I don't think it's a very good idea to try and go for a ruleset that's completely fair and acceptable for any language-group, culture and subculture out there by the way, nor do I think that it's a good idea to focus on particular words. As long as behavior is being considered offensive by a singificant part of the forum it should be treated as offensive imo, and besides, as Milaru pointed out with his "cum dumpster" comment, it's always easy enough to switch to synonyms.
    Same with "fag". Using it when talking about a cigarette is OK as far as I can see, using it as a way to insult gays is not OK in my book. But in that case, it's still not the word that's a problem, it's insulting someone for their sexual orientation that is.
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  5. #105
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    Re: Milaru - suspended for a week - lifted (see last post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Etelka
    Perhaps Europeans as a whole tend to be more on the Myngil-side of the spectrum-of-offensive-language-usage than on the Daph-side
    I have not been trying to suggest that the word is not offensive (To note, I feel like a complete asshole when I refer to it as “The Word” instead of just saying it) but that it does not hold the same degree of taboo elsewhere as it does in the states. Maybe it’s a puritan influence but people react like it has a magic ability to render listeners of the word infertile while poisoning crops and land for a five mile radius around the epicenter of the atrocity.

    Daph does not concern me, There is nothing out of the ordinary for her to be championing politeness. ‘My side’ is that the word has a use BECAUSE it is one of the more offensive words you can ever use, not that it should be used freely and casually but that there is a balance shift going on in recent media over the word. It will not have the same “black magic” connotations to my generation as it will to the age groups that make up a majority of graffes population. Does that mean I think that “the old fogies should just chill like me because I’m like cool, man”? No, it just means that I think that it is worth bringing up given the odd history this place has had with the word recently.

  6. #106

    Re: Milaru - suspended for a week - lifted (see last post)

    Be Civil: While vehement disagreement is part of the tradition of Graffes and is strongly encouraged, posts should conform to a minimal level of common decency. This is a constraint on form and not content.
    It is not possible to use cunt in anger and conform to "minimal levels of decency."

  7. #107
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    Re: Milaru - suspended for a week - lifted (see last post)

    Quote Originally Posted by DmitrytheWizzy View Post
    It is not possible to use cunt in anger and conform to "minimal levels of decency."
    Why do you use it then?
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  8. #108

    Re: Milaru - suspended for a week - lifted (see last post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Etelka View Post
    Why do you use it then?
    I don't.

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    Re: Milaru - suspended for a week - lifted (see last post)

    You used it in the past. During the two weeks that you have been an admin you apparently didn't have "special kinds of hatred", but that's about it.
    "Better an honest enemy than a shitty friend that's robbing you blind."

  10. #110

    Re: Milaru - suspended for a week - lifted (see last post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Etelka View Post
    You used it in the past. During the two weeks that you have been an admin you apparently didn't have "special kinds of hatred", but that's about it.
    Not since well before the institution of the rules last year and I am not sure I ever did here. Feel free to find a cite though or else you are just talking out your ass again.

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    Re: Milaru - suspended for a week - lifted (see last post)

    Quote Originally Posted by DmitrytheWizzy View Post
    Not since well before the institution of the rules last year and I am not sure I ever did here. Feel free to find a cite though or else you are just talking out your ass again.

    Quote Originally Posted by DmitrytheWizzy
    Not when I was a mod certainly. And not under the new rules. I really do not like the word and reserve it for very specific hatreds.
    And *I* am the one who's talking out of his ass? That's rich.
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  12. #112

    Re: Milaru - suspended for a week - lifted (see last post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Etelka View Post
    And *I* am the one who's talking out of his ass? That's rich.
    SO that would be you not finding an example and talking out your ass some more? OK Got it.

  13. #113
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    Re: Milaru - suspended for a week - lifted (see last post)

    Quote Originally Posted by DmitrytheWizzy View Post
    SO that would be you not finding an example and talking out your ass some more? OK Got it.
    You have admitted yourself that you will use it "in special cases". And at the same you are claiming that "I don't." use it.

    In other words: I am not "talking out of my ass", you are lying.
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  14. #114
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    Re: Milaru - suspended for a week - lifted (see last post)

    Quote Originally Posted by DmitrytheWizzy View Post
    Not since well before the institution of the rules last year and I am not sure I ever did here. Feel free to find a cite though or else you are just talking out your ass again.
    I found a couple. Basically only one.

    Haven't read the whole thread but it appears Myngil used it on Dmitry, Dmitry complained a bit and a discussion about the difference between swearing and being inflammatory without swearing ensued. Near the end, Dmitry responded to Camrael's two cents with this post.

    There are a few other cases, but they are all used as part of a hypothetical scenario not as an actual insult, like here: http://www.graffe.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1327265, where he's speculating about what one might have to do to break the "because I said it's so" rule.

  15. #115
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    Re: Milaru - suspended for a week - lifted (see last post)

    Weaksauce.

    Edit: the lifiting of the suspension, not the stupid grasping toward Dmitry for something he never did as a mod. Although that's also weaksauce. If there's a good example of why the mod team sometimes appeared to be wandering listlessly in a circle during my time as a mod, this thread would be it.

    I love milaru like a little bro (well more like an over-excitable nephew) but he earned his suspension and removing it this quickly undermines the entire mod team.
    Last edited by Grindel; April 5th, 2009 at 08:03 AM.

  16. #116
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    Re: Milaru - suspended for a week - lifted (see last post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eniarch View Post
    Both. I'm sorry that he feels these reports are malicious in nature, but willfully and intentionally ignoring warnings from staff members is not a good way to go about things.

    He used the word in question in a non-rants forum. His post was edited by a staff member and a polite warning sent to him not to use the word in that fashion in the future as doing so violates the civility rule. Milaru edited it back into the same post that had been previously edited by staff and informed staff members that he'd done so. He was then warned not to push the issue, and the post was again edited by a staff member.

    Milaru then used it AGAIN in another thread in a non-rants forum after being warned previously about the issue twice in less than 24 hours. At this point, the second report came in, and here we are.
    You admitted yourself you reported me because I used it, after being told the board standard is to not allow it (despite finding multiple instances where it was ignored) Voca told me it wasn't the board standard, I misread another part of her post, informed her of her error and changed the edit back, I then mentioned that I had been reported for saying things that members allowed others to say with no report, then YOU reported me for that, you need to go back and read the rules about form not content, it wasn't used in an insulting manner, and the board standard that was cited is pretty weak it seems, given the massive evidence that no one really cares.
    Quote Originally Posted by DmitrytheWizzy View Post
    I reported it the first time because I hate the word and because I thought Ali has taken a lot of unwarranted misogynist crap lately.

    It is the quintessential uncivil word.
    call me a snitch again, because clearly you aren't petty or vindictive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alikat Astrae View Post
    Well, I didn't have a chance to respond to his "swayback cum dumpster" remark because he wound up getting himself suspended before I got online today, so why should I give him a free pass for it? Besides, I was just pleading with the Graffe forum users to please be kind to him, why would you see that plea for mercy as a "shot?"
    yeah sorry about that, goes back to the misread PM from Voca and taking shit for using something so mundane and an insult.

    and I think it was receptical, did I say dumpster, I normally used dumpster to refer to amris.

    Quote Originally Posted by DmitrytheWizzy View Post
    And the board has moved on. Part of the problem back then was no mods paying attention and inconsistent at best moderation.
    it was with the last mod team, in October. after the new rules, if you are going to lie, don't make it about something that can be defeated with a search engine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grindel View Post
    I'm pretty sure milaru knew what he was doing and that it'd get him suspended. I think we can all agree that double standards are not good, and that if milaru notes one in this case in the future we're all going to hear about it very loudly.
    no, I really had no idea that saying I did it would be a reportable offense. I have no problems with being reported for calling Alikat a cunt, I should have taken the time to make a real response, but I just really didn't have the energy to deal with the copy and paste squad this time around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voca View Post
    5) Milaru also thinks that I am biased -- that is, he thinks in actively not trying to show favouritism to him I am treating him harsher than others. It would be fair to say that when I saw the second report I was at the end of my patience and that no doubt influenced my decision. In addition to the public actions he sent me some PMs in which he continued to express his personal dislike of Alikat in rather explicit terms. So it's quite possible he is right that I was not entirely objective about what was actually posted in public. I am certainly human and make mistakes.
    I actually said nothing about my dislike of alikat in any terms, I sent you PMs to show where multiple users had used it with no reports, and expressed displeasure that I was being singled out, I thought it was cheap shit that a lying cunt would do. As it turns out I was still right, as it was dmitry reporting me to stir up shit rather than Alikat as I had thought I had read in the report.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wjjapl View Post
    I have edited this post, I never realised the word was on the "don't use ever"-list, and thought that otherwise my post met the minimally civil-standard.
    there is no do not use list, its don't get reported using it, otherwise no one cares.

    Quote Originally Posted by DmitrytheWizzy View Post
    Not when I was a mod certainly. And not under the new rules. I really do not like the word and reserve it for very specific hatreds.
    October 28th 2008 was under the new rules, theres a whole thread about it. Your do as I say not as I do bullshit is getting really old. You didn't use it when you were a mod, Grindel did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Etelka View Post
    Well, in his second post Milaru used the word "cunt" purely as a reference to the first post. But, instead of referring to Alikat as simply Alikat he referred to her as "the cumstained whatever". That one was also a bit of a civility breach. So I think Voca's call on Milaru was the correct one.
    I was reported for referencing what I did, not being uncivil. The whole idea that cunt can't be said is fine and if that is what the board wants, fine, but don't decide its not when I say I said it, but fine when Wjappel and Grindel call people cunts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eamin View Post
    I don't disagree that Milaru broke the civility rule, though I'm not sure he broke it enough to warrant a suspension. I just don't really like the idea of having a "naughty words" test for what counts as a civility infraction, and it seemed like that's what you might have been advocating when you said the majority of the board had a problem with cunt.

    Also, good points have been made about people reporting uncivil discourse that has nothing to do with them. I'm not sure there is anything we can do about that as far as the rules are concerned, though, since if we make it so only the insulted parties can report things we've essentially thrown out anonymous reporting.
    My point hasn't been that I didn't break it, its been that the second report is retarded and fails to meet the form not content aspect of rule 6. The first report, as it turns out, is bullshit as well, but thats just because dmitry can't be enough of a hypocrite it seems and falls over himself to keep it up, then lie about his past actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grindel View Post
    Weaksauce.

    Edit: the lifiting of the suspension, not the stupid grasping toward Dmitry for something he never did as a mod. Although that's also weaksauce. If there's a good example of why the mod team sometimes appeared to be wandering listlessly in a circle during my time as a mod, this thread would be it.

    I love milaru like a little bro (well more like an over-excitable nephew) but he earned his suspension and removing it this quickly undermines the entire mod team.
    When you were a mod you had more than merrick understanding what rule 6 was. Luxum would have caught it, you probably would have too. The fact that the new mod team is responsible for this whole fuckup, whats left to undermine?

    Still gone for a week, the edit thing was bullshit, even if it was only because I totally misread Voca's PM and wouldn't have done it had I been moderately functioning when i read the PM.

  17. #117
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    Re: Milaru - suspended for a week - lifted (see last post)

    Quote Originally Posted by milaru View Post
    The fact that the new mod team is responsible for this whole fuckup, whats left to undermine?
    Just for clarity (and this is in response to Grindel as well) this was me. I mod this forum. I didn't consult with the mods. By reversing my own decision I am at most undermining me.

  18. #118
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    Re: Milaru - suspended for a week - lifted (see last post)

    Taking a break from a downed-PC issue to reply to this.

    Quote Originally Posted by milaru View Post
    You admitted yourself you reported me because I used it, after being told the board standard is to not allow it
    No. I stated that I reported you because I saw you using it again after two warnings NOT to use it and two edits of places you had used it in less than 24 hours previous. Personally, I could care less who you call a cunt, but ignoring multiple warnings from moderators is an issue to me.

    Reporting is the equivalent of saying "Is this an issue" to the moderators. Yeah, I reported it, because I found its timing and use of a specific referent in conjunction with the insult ("swayback cum dumpster" is not insulting in any way?) questionable, particularly when you'd been warned twice previously and so recently.

    It's not personal, Milaru, but complaining about reporting isn't the angle you should be taking. Argue against the moderation action, not against being reported. People get reported all the time for far more frivolous things than ignoring moderation warnings.

  19. #119
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    Re: Milaru - suspended for a week - lifted (see last post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Voca View Post
    Just for clarity (and this is in response to Grindel as well) this was me. I mod this forum. I didn't consult with the mods. By reversing my own decision I am at most undermining me.
    I hear that requires a phenomenal amount of flexibility.
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  20. #120
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    Re: Milaru - suspended for a week - lifted (see last post)

    What a giant waste of time. Lets just go with no rules FFA if we're going to do stupid shit like this.

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