pFFt screw that, horde forever sir! We're free spirits, not like them facist humans and their goodly ways. Pfft to that sir, horde all the way! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatwiz
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pFFt screw that, horde forever sir! We're free spirits, not like them facist humans and their goodly ways. Pfft to that sir, horde all the way! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatwiz
Maybe I missed this before, but can you buy tack for your mounts? Doesn't look like wolves need much in the way of tack, but I imagine humans would use it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whizbang Dustyboots
Except that you only get mounts at level 40 or something. Oops, nevermind.
You guys are absolutely vicious in the OT forum. I sort of poked my head in and almost lost it to stray fire from Eamin and Vice.
I have learned that is best to just observe the debate in the OT forum unless I truely know what I am commenting on and can back it up with facts. :)Quote:
You guys are absolutely vicious in the OT forum. I sort of poked my head in and almost lost it to stray fire from Eamin and Vice.
Difference: Passed around like an expensive hooker right now!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatwiz
And yes, things can get really viscious around here. I wonder if the Paris Hilton thread is still around...
OT but damn you Ikeya :)
been with the in-laws all day so will catch up on reading this later tomorrow and add more then
hugs
sav
This is your punishment for denying me both alpha info and catholic school girls!
Well, I think that was sort of the problem. Eamin and I were sort of making Vice look really dumb...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatwiz
I'd rather talk to someone with opinions than someone without, that's for sure!
You guys are great, but I can't imagine you all in a guild. You're an awesome community, but I just do not see a guild working.
Where are the schoolgirls? And what are you doing free, Ikeya? There's an encampment of Tauren ladies that want you, get moving! I'll handle those schoolgirls, rest assured!
Vice does a good enough job himself without you and Ikeya helping :rolleyes:Quote:
Well, I think that was sort of the problem. Eamin and I were sort of making Vice look really dumb...
Thanks for your answers and the awsome mage pictures Pedi.
Thanks for answering Pedi :)
Thanks Whiz! I guess then what I'm asking for is a complete skill tree from what the Beta has so far. I saw some guy named Legacy of Torment on the official forum posted a good 400 odd screenshots with that sort of information. But they were not very structual set up so I didn't view them at all. Or prehaps a somewhat complete overview with information about what each tree is good for :)Quote:
OK, Talent points for all classes can be spent to:
1) Raise stats
2) Raise defensive abilities
3) Raise magical abilities and/or resistance
4) Raise weapon specializations appropropriate to the class
5) Raise species-related slayer abilities
Sorry if it's the new form of AA discussion :), The reason I'm interested is that I'll play my paladin as a tank for my group of friends, so I'll need to see what to buy and what I'll miss out on and weigh the two against each other :)
I just kind of skimmed this thread, so what this may have been asked and answered, if so sorry..
But will I be able to group up with my friends at low lvls very easily if we pick different races? For example, Orc and Tauren.
I ran my Gnome Rogue to Qeynos from Ak`Anon at lvl 3 prekunark.. and it was very doable, though it involed alot of mad strafe/jumping dashes to zonelines (and I didn't even know the way :p) So wondering if I'll be able to run across to other cities at low lvls to group with friends, as long as were of the same alliance.
The Graffe's guild would rule whatever server it was on! When we weren't beating each other into senseless pulps with steel bars...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenarius
Which would happend on every non red sunday!Quote:
Originally Posted by Brahma Atman
The guildchat with Eamin, Ikeya, Vice, Torcer and Infernal would be good though. I can see myself sitting around doing nothing else then listening!
Well, I would, but they've said they're reworking the Talents, so it'd be a LOT of screenshots in aid of something that'll be obsolete possibly as early as next patch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zrie of Quellious
Let me tell you what Talents I'm buying for my second paladin that I'm currently playing. I'm going heavier on DPS than I am on hit points, but I'm also picking up good general Talents:
1) Heroic Strength. Strength is the damage stat for paladins, and each point of STR gives you one more point of both minimum and maximum damage.
2) Toughness. This raises your innate armor class, which in turn works as damage reduction in WoW. (Formula for the damage reduction is also being tweaked currently.)
3) Lightning Reflexes and Evade. These two Talents raise your Defense skill cap, which in turn lets you avoid getting hit altogether. And unlike armor class, it works against spells as well. Two levels of LR and one of Evade, which you can get at level 10, makes you effectively a level higher in terms of Defense. And just like in Everquest, that makes a noticeable difference as to how often one gets hit. At level 30, you can raise this to being effectively two levels higher.
4) Great Stamina. Buying Stamina on a one-to-one basis.
5) Perceptive. Raising my (hidden) perception cap (which I THINK automatically maxes each level) like the Defense cap is raised by LR and Evade, so I can see those pesky rogues in stealth mode.
6) Shield Defense. This works slightly better than Toughness, but only when you have a buckler or shield equipped.
It honestly depends on the races in question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirab
You could group up a troll and an orc instantly, since you start in the exact same newbie area.
You could group up a human and a dwarf or a gnome very easily, since the flight from Stormwind to Ironforge is only 50 copper pieces and the route is automatically open. By level 3, one of you will have raised those funds.
Grouping up a troll or an orc with a Tauren is slightly more complex, since the route between Thunder Bluff and Orgrimmar is both more expensive and not automatically open. You would naturally meet in the Crossroads in the Barrens around level 10. At the moment, you can "ghost" through hostile territory to eat a death somewhere other than the zone in which you died, so you could get there that way now, but I expect that to be fixed next patch.
Grouping up an undead with a Kalimdor Horde or a Night Elf with an eastern Alliance race is more problematic. You'll either have to ghost it or wait until the teens or later.
The boat from Kalimdor lands in Menethil Harbor in the Wetlands, which is a high teens area, and even at level 20, crocs and raptors and gnolls and orcs and oozes will be coming from a long way away to get you due to level aggro.
Depending on where the zepellin from undead lands to Kalimdor goes from, it could be even harder for the Horde. I think it docks at the village of Hammerfall in the Arathi Highlands, which make the Wetlands look like a petting zoo. (It's a high 20s zone.)
But for races that start on the same continent, you could do it with perserverence. Easiest, though, is to just start in the same area with one of the races that shares it with the natives.
first of all ... respect ! It's really adorable how much time and work you put into answering our questions ... so here is a new task for you ;) : I don't know if you are familiar with blizzard rts-games, but I'm looking for the hero-class that resembles the blademaster from WC III. He is more a technician than a real warrior, more stealthy and sneaky but also not to be underestimated in melee. So from what I've read the rogue comes closest to this, but when I only look on the skills (critical strike, whirlwind) the warrior seems so be just as close.
What would you say ?
Well, orc blademaster WILL be in as a hero class available at level 40, if all goes according to schedule. In fact, all of the Warcraft III classes (and probably a few more besides) will be classes that characters who have met the proper prerequisites can switch into. We haven't seen them in alpha yet, though, and no idea if they'll be in beta any time soon.
An orc rogue who lived and died by Stealth and his Slice and Dice finishing move would probably play fairly closely to a Blademaster, but wouldn't have any of the magical abilities of that unit, and especially not his ultimate. If/when the hero classes do go in, though, I suspect orc rogues will be the ones who find it easiest to qualify for the hero class in any case.
I'd like to thank the contributors of this thread for the amazing work they're doing in granting us information. : ) *squeezy hug of doom*
Also, one of you mentioned Npc druids. Could you describe them in a bit more detail, please?
Thanks much.
-Majicou
its weird knowing you are posting in a thread that will never, ever die.
Thanks, Whiz, for the info, I think you've helped make up my mind. This is a game i want :).
Insane night elves in the Wailing Caverns who change into serpents and other nastiness. (The Wailing Cavern druids are ... not normal, so don't think PC druids will get a snake form.) They also can heal and cast Sleep.Quote:
Also, one of you mentioned Npc druids. Could you describe them in a bit more detail, please?
Insane night elves make me happy. : )
Even if they don't represent the player class.
*hiss..erm night elf noise*
Interesting...
There was a separate forum for the Gates of Discord expansion that was condensed since the post count did not really warrant being away from other common EverQuest threads.
EverQuest announces its five year anniversary and while noted here on this forum, is not breaking any new grounds overall with the fabled equipment.
Sigil announces Vanguard (I believe) and it passes to the wayside.
One thread about an alpha version of a game and the view count is closing quickly upon 100,000 views.
I would lay odds that there are some gaming companies quite worried about World of Warcraft, even in its early state if my casual views noted have any merit on the overall gaming player base.
>>>>>Axlrose - ...<<<<<
There are a number of reasons why a Graffe-guild probably wouldn't work, but frankly our political views and message board manners aren't one of them. In several years of EQ playing I had many intense arguments with guildmates but, when it came time to play, setting aside differences wasn't difficult. Most of the issues I forsee stem from the simple fact that WoW is a game, and Graffe's is a discussion forum.
What would the goal of the guild be? We have players of vastly varying styles and temperaments who have different ideas of what a guild should be.
Who would lead it?
What would it mean for the forums when someone misbehaves enough to be kicked from the guild, but not the forums? And vice versa?
Lots of extra content for the board :PQuote:
What would it mean for the forums when someone misbehaves enough to be kicked from the guild, but not the forums? And vice versa?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I meant anything related to guilds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedi Dustyboots
Hum ... some time ago I read an article on worldofwar.net on the subject of hero-classes and how something like that could be integrated usefully. The article pointed out that it wouldn't be a good idea to make such classes easy to get because this would destroy what heros are normally intended to be: A real rarity and just as hard to become as, let's say a jedi knight in SWG. Speculations of how these classes could be attractive for everyone but still be limited in number were made like making them only avaible for players that do a great service in quests officially hosted by blizzard and similar things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whizbang Dustyboots
You mentioned that hero-classes are available at lvl 40, does this also include a change of appearance ? Because I fear that it will be a bit monotonous when thousands of people play popular heros like the Demon Hunter and nothing is so special about them anymore.
Thanks a ton Whizbang. I realize my Question was a bit much, but you seemed the gnome who was up to the task :) I will try and wait the next few patches with patience then :D I can't promise anything though! Since WoW seems to be the next best thing after Sliced Bread!
Quote:
Originally Posted by NibeL
You mentioned that hero-classes are available at lvl 40, does this also include a change of appearance ? Because I fear that it will be a bit monotonous when thousands of people play popular heros like the Demon Hunter and nothing is so special about them anymore.
i understand your point but i cant agree . First of all in War3 and TFT heros are just above average units . I mean there are tons of blade masters and demon hunters , with only their own names and choice of skills as difference , while there is ONLY ONE Arthas , one Thrall , one Illidan . Those are btw indeed pretty difference of "average" heros by their appearance and skills. The Warcraft universe , background wise includes tons of anonymous soldiers of various races , above them heros , wich are rarer but still not unique and at last the chars with a real and known name . In a completely warcraft universe based isnt that totally normal that it follow its most basics rules and mechanisms ??
Besides so far , i havent been much interested by mmorpgs , except for WoW , for various reasons , some of those being the lack of plots , real background and the fact that you are a nobody , an unknown guy , even at your highest level . Of course you gains recognition among a community maybe , but it just aint the same as a slo oriented rpg with a plot centered about you , and making you the savior of the world , or a bad guy .
So even if its still isnt heaven , it get closer and closer in games that make you "special" giving you access to a vip class , even if only based on lvl merit .
You seems to want that kind of rewards too but for some people only , but why those thousands of people paying for the game should remains nobodies:p ?? Besides there will be quite a number of "heros" but without doubt a large amount wont be able , or play enough time to become one . Everquest still isnt full of Lv 60 guys , nor D2( i know not the best exemple) filled with lv99 .
So in short , yes i wanna be a hero , and its not like if they said there wasnt even higher and better classes for those worthy .
At last about appearance , its obvious (or so i think) that your char , lets say a pointy hat orc rogue with the weirdest , wont loose his appearance for a classical and standard war3 blademaster , most likely you'll get his skills , equipement and some changes in looks but while keeping your customisation .
Of course there are great chances to meet some "twins" in the world , you can after all only customize some stuff , and even more chances if they dont keep adding portrait and physical detailseven after retail but still there is plenty to feel original enough , even for a short while , at least way more that most game ( just looks at the fews pics in the only thread , and see the old "barbarian twins " of Eq :D )
~giggle~Quote:
Everquest still isnt full of Lv 60 guys
Quote:
Originally Posted by luxum
;)
ahem Level 65...
A graffe guild might not work, but a graffe server would rock. If some of us wind up in the same guild cool. If not, cool. Either way it'd be nice to see familiar faces.Quote:
There are a number of reasons why a Graffe-guild probably wouldn't work
bah to j00 :mad: :D :)Quote:
Originally Posted by luxum
~giggle~
At least it wasnt last time i checked :p !! And the game is at least 5 years old so..
Besides i doubt that the majority of the players are 60-65 ( please tell me they arent ahahahaa)
To be honest that's what'll make or break WoW for me. There must be a high end game that is actually fun and rewarding and there must be a way I can continue to grow my character. The problem in both cases is that they must allow an infinite series of rewards that players will value but avoid the power spiral or rewards that are perceived as too trivial for the effort. It's a really difficult balance, but if they can come up with some sort of "lateral" development they own me.
Thus i'd hope that a hero class represents a whole nother level of hunting and gaming and questing which doesn't neccessarily make me massively more powerful but does give me more options and polishes my existing abilities. It can be lengthy (like AA) but I should be able to have it as an eventual goal and see some degree of progress towards it (like AA).
Still amazes me how many games have launched without any consideration of an endgame. For example what did the designers of Horizons expect a max level character to do other than get bored?
No DoT stacking for warlocks is extremely lame, enough to make me avoid that class. Although to be honest if I dream of being a raider in a game i'll never again play a pet class.
They're not; they just talk like they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoLucifer
No one knows anything about the end game yet, but I imagine it will be pretty sparse at first, much like EQ was in the beginning. I'm sure the game will grow with the player base. Expansions = $$$$
Horizons problems are more then just lack of end game content, the game is seriously still in payed Alpha.
About the way Faction affects PVP i just hope it wont turn , as in many mmorpg , as a huge capture the flag system ... I mean raids , sieges and war between Hordes and alliances might be in the end nice , i just hope we wont be endlessly fighting for territories controls while at the same time incessantly losing some and thus entering in a vicious permanent status quo . Such fight might be suited to fps and games like tribes , planetside and any team assault game , since all that matter are frags , points and teamworks , and since such game are all about endless brawls , but in a roleplay based game i find it quite dumb .
Then again , i might mostly biased against mmorpg so far ...
I find them too static in background and plots (if they got any real one) , i hate how most are leveling and power-users focused , i hate the way theirs editors seems to tell you : " here is the landscape , the races and the classes , now its up to you to do something with it " , and how you are free to do anything but in the end turn up doing nothing special : killing for the sake of leveling , looting for the sake of trading , whats lft is chatting with friends :s .
Everquest , first seemed interesting , i loved the D&D feeling , the variety of classes and races (especially the drows , the iksars ,e tc , i found cool to have somehing else than your usual elf , human , dwarf , orc available races) and the backgroung plot seemed ok , but in the end the content wasnt good enough .
World of Warcraft , so far , i getting me a lot more interested and full of hopes . Classes and races wise its far from Everquest's variety and choice (in quantity i mean) and even more far from my dreams : i'd love to play some races and classes not common at all in mmorpg and even rpgs (thought pretty common on the npc and ennemies sides) such as werewolf , vampires , liches , demons (at least there are undeads ^_^) . Gameplay wise , well what to say besides that its a blizzard game :D !!!
But what really got me interested in the game is first its universe , i always loved the warcraft background , especially since war3 . Then it was the will of blizzard to give the mmorpg world what shouldnt be missing in the first place : Fun!!! And they seems to do it pretty well by breaking once and for all that idiotic tradition of plotless , "questless" , and heavily leveling oriented mmorpgs . Thus i am enthusiast about that game and while its still not perfect , i wish it will become the new model for most mmorpgs and force them to evolve instead of being satisfied with becoming the newest and 9999th copies of everquest .
PS : i am the only to think that i type an awful lot ???
I do agree , and thats what i meant with mmorpg being way too statics , your character indeed evolve , but not in a story , and the universe remains quite the same ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kireiina
To be honest that's what'll make or break WoW for me.There must be a high end game that is actually fun and rewarding and there must be a way I can continue to grow my character
Thats one of the thing i sure dont hope for WoW the same thing
Addons are a way sure to add extra content ...but i would wish also for some events . Landscape as an example why should they only evolve though addition of new territories such as islands ?? Why should a country be "frozen" forever ?? Why cant a village be destroyed for quite some times even if rebuilt after ???
Why is the world of Everquest 2 in ruins because of some catastrophes , wars or armageddon (so they say nice way to change landscape -_-) and not in the original Everquest , even at a much smaller scale , like a simple moutain or hills ?
ok there are technical limitations but there is also an evident form of lazyness and lack of creativity lol
And that was just an ex concerning landscape , they try to create a real world , even if fantasy , but a world doesnt stay in some "golden frozen age" where nothing change , not even the name of a road :D
Warlocks get 3 DOTs that do indeed stack: one's a Curse, one's a Shadow based spell, and one's a Fire based spell with a DD attached. ;) You'll see yellow DOT dmg above the monster's head for each of the 3, and you'll see each of the 3 DOTs shown as affecting the monster just below the monster's icon in the target area.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kireiina
This is already planned and either explicitly announced or heavily foreshadowed in the game:Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoLucifer
1) At some point, some crazy ass players are going to figure out how to reopen the Dark Portal into the Twisting Nether and Outland -- hellooooo, Burning Legion. At that point, it will open up on all servers, permenantly.
2) The Alliance kingdom of Gilneas is currently hidden behind a protective wall and gate. At some point in the retail version, their isolation will be ending.
3) Final example: Admiral Theramore's attempt to destroy Durotar failed in The Frozen Throne, but his fleet was not totally destroyed. Newbie orcs and trolls who invade his citadel and kill his lieutenant can find papers in a locked chest that they need to bring to Thrall. The papers detail how a portion of his fleet went to circle Kalimdor and map out safe harbors and such, and that, should Theramore and his lieutenant fail, when they came back around to Durotar, they were under orders to bombard Orgrimmar and destroy the orcs once and for all. The fleet is out there, and circling back around towards Durotar ... it's a safe bet there will be a human invasion of orc lands at some point after the game goes live.
Dont worry i was just talking about the mmorpgs in a general way :p this is what i understood too and one of the things i already love in WoW : a dynamic , fun oriented and players centered world instead of some empty , yet beautiful lands to fill with monsters and players .Quote:
Originally Posted by Whizbang Dustyboots
This is already planned and either explicitly announced or heavily foreshadowed in the game
I'd rather see some mad guy awaken a powerful dragon , wich would destroy a village and have us dead , rather than being an immortal creeping :D
Alanya, you don't understand what I mean by DoT stacking. A warlock can stack all his DoT's on the mob and the class is balanced on this basis. If that warlock is on a raid his power is reduced, possibly even to being able to put zero DoT's on a mob, because there are other warlocks present. A DD user will never experience a similar reduction in their power and thus has an advantage due to the mechanics of the game.
Everquest screwed this up and took a long time to put in a "hack" to reduce the problem. It disappoints me that WoW appears to also have over-looked this.
Vash will check this out next time he can -- I seem to recall something being said in alpha about this very issue. There were posts about it on the alpha pages, so I'm sure the developers are aware of it, and are hopefully working on a game mechanic to address this problem. ;)
I thought Jaina was in charge of that island now? Or is his lieutenant somewhere else?Quote:
it's a safe bet there will be a human invasion of orc lands at some point after the game goes live.
Jaina opposed her father in the optional campaign. She's still in charge of Theramore -- but Admiral Proudmoore's followers don't recognize her as the legitimate authority of Lordaeron-in-exile.
mmm about the story introduced in tft , and someone's earlier complaint about the lack of the elves .. i think that we shouldnt worry too much .. Im convinced that in a future expansion we will get the blood elves . I dont dislike night elves at all but i just dont consider them like elves , they seems much more to me like dryads , centaurs , satyres etc...
At beginning , when more info became available on them and screenshots appeared i was disappointed because i was expecting drows , dark elves ... and even after in hoped to see drows appears in the addon tft , then that hope almost dissapeared when i saw the blood elves . In the end i find it ok like that even if i keep a little hope about see drows in a warcraft game (but quite improbable ,at least for now)
Anyway the blood elves would fit perfectly in a future expansion of Wow imho . With the spellbreakers units and the Blood mage hero unit ( and also their version of the old war3 elven units) they proved that they could theorically cover melee , distance and magic battles and classes . A blood elven warrior , a priest , or a warlock would fit them quite well , not to mention possible futur classes
In the same way i got some hopes for the naga race , they could fit quite in the same way the iksar did in their times...
At last , same hopes for a pandaren based race wich could allow the introduction of "monkish" , martial arts based skills or classes
You sir are certifiable. If you would like to sit around and listen to that I can get you a sound track from a Three Stooges movie with the dialogue taken out but the "sproings" and "woop woops" left in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangrim
WOOT! Do they follow the lore of the optional campaign too!!!! WOOT WOOT!Quote:
Jaina opposed her father in the optional campaign. She's still in charge of Theramore -- but Admiral Proudmoore's followers don't recognize her as the legitimate authority of Lordaeron-in-exile.
The problem with having individual events that change the world is that then you have content that is first-come first-serve, and nobody else ever gets to enjoy that content. It is a difficult thing to balance. Think about what happened with Sleeper's Tomb in EQ and how upset people often were when another guild woke the sleeper
As for end-game content, I'm curious to see where they go with it. It bothers me that after EQ, everyone seems to think that "raids" are the only possible end-game. Not everyone likes raids, and lots of those that do aren't going to be leaving EQ anytime soon (because lets face it, despite a myriad of problems that is one thing that EQ does relatively well). I hope that upcoming games keep that in mind and provide more options for high level characters than just gathering in huge groups for raids
With the serious amount of quests that Blizzard has been putting into the game and the ability to add more later with ease, I don't think we'll have to worry about what to do with our characters when they hit the level cap.
I mean, one of the things they've stressed is how they're all hardcore gamers, too, so it's not like they're not aware of the issues.
Anyway, I guess my point is that I have faith. :)
Oh, and on a different topic, I'm glad there aren't drow in the game. Drow have been done and done again so many times that I'm ready for something more original. In the case of the Warcraft setting, it seems as though the Naga really fill that 'evil/fallen elf' role quite nicely, though I'm not sure they'd work well as a player race. Maybe in an underwater/island based expansion. I just can't see them venturing very far away from the water, which kinda cuts the character's motivation for checking out the plains in Kalimdor or something.
: mm that first come first serve issue about world events might be true ... but giving access to it to people not there while events unfolded would be quite an headache and impossible . Indeed how to do it ?? this could lead to the existence of infinity of paralleles worlds :D Still events like those should happen , and most should remains surprises . The amount of people possibly missing those events , because they would be afk or not players yet is another reason why those events should "all the time" (na i dont mean an end of the world all the time on a regular basis :D i mean again that the world should perpetually and in a spontaneous way evolve and change all the time.
Besides like i said those events arent all supposed to be worlwide anyways.. as an exemple a village near the border of two warring faction shouldnt remains all the time peaceful and quiet , it could and even should move from a faction to another overtime (kinda like alsace , region at the border of france and germany , became french , german ,french again etc ) , who know this village could maybe even become a neutral ground ...
Again those are landscape and "geopolitics" ex only , but i think those are pretty good ex , cities , kingdoms rise and fall overtime , and this isnt because of an obstinate will of realism i keep talking about those , i do think that that kind of event could bring even more roleplay ( warriors from a fallen city seeking vengeance anyone ??)
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerynelf
I'm glad there aren't drow in the game. Drow have been done and done again so many times that I'm ready for something more original. In the case of the Warcraft setting, it seems as though the Naga really fill that 'evil/fallen elf' role quite nicely, though I'm not sure they'd work well as a player race. Maybe in an underwater/island based expansion
Well not really , drow are underexploited , ok there is everquest but where else are they ??? ok you see them in D&D games or copies but you rarely play them given their evil and powerful nature , at best they get added in expansions or some game like lineage that only seems to use them as skin for an evil counterpart of the elves :( . Besides them being evil , people tend to forget that they arent happy go lucky wood and songs lovers , even in a none D&D universe they got quite different cultures and abilities
but again i dont mind them not being available if the blood elves are added . Except for the skin color they got pretty much the potentiel to be quite as well as the drows . On the opposite , its true that the original "whitey" elf is overexploited , and i agree with war3's choice about their fate and importance
As for the naga they seems more to be filling the iksar's spot imho , and i think that they still could be implemented , especially since the tft addon allowing some of them like the naga witch hero to be on earth , and like you said with an extra land its all possible , everquest in that showed the good ex , with the iksars
While the Drow are an evil race, all Drow PC's are Chaotic Good.
The optional campaign is there to set up WoW. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmitry the Wizzy
Hahahahahah too true. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadiar
How many nice, friendly Blood Elves and Naga would we get if those were playable races? ;)
mmm chaotic good :confused: :D ??? so far most i've seen were chaotic evil or neutral evil ,except some like drizzt .. a chaotic good char being just a good guy wich refuse authority ... while neutral evil (even considered as the worst and true evil) do anything as long as they benefits from it ,a nd only care about themselves ... As for chaotic evil like their names says they got a taste for disorder , chaos and destruction and is unpredictable .. so drows good guys wich just hate authorities ?? dont think so , they reeks of , hatred ,vengeful spirit (prett much like the blood elves or the naga) and think they are superior beings
90%+ of the people that want to play a Drow want to play Drizzt in some capacity. Except in games where you don't have the option, like in EQ.
All too often, "roleplaying" means "I want to play a kewl evil race, but I want to have all the advantages of being a good guy."
wts fake evils
dont agree , i think that most are forced since 90% of the only games featuring playable drows are solo games or mmo heavily rewarding orientation toward good and punishing evil wishes :D
The same way most baldur or icewind dale half orc would be as close as good as possible to avoid troubles
thats also why most of the time mmorpgs drows are only dark skinned "normal" elves except in stuff like everquest
Face it, we all wanted to play wizards cause Gandalf was the shit. Come on say it with me now~Quote:
Originally Posted by Whizbang Dustyboots
Didn't Shadowbane have a race like this as well. Started with an I or something I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoLucifer
Well unless really getting advantages over good guys being in an evil faction , i dont see why there should be huge malus for evil charsQuote:
All too often, "roleplaying" means "I want to play a kewl evil race, but I want to have all the advantages of being a good guy."
wts fake evils
I just hated how in some games like baldur's gate give you malus without any advantages (except aside the fun of being evil) like increases of price , and rude npc answers as evil was written on the guy's face.... Bein evil should just be like in Kotor at some moment , doing dirty things and lying after without people noticing , or if you wish expose yourself to troubles and not hide and being an honest (stupid i would say) evil (lmao)
Thats why the forced faction kinda solve the matter , you being an evil guy "only"for the faction opposed to yours , especially if it is indeed branded as evil lol :D
Now this doesnt mean you should be forced to be a friendly guy in your own faction :p....
those are only ideas and i'm far from the first to think of it , but a good way for evil char roleplay can imho only be found with full pvp ...
Before i get killed wishing for pvp i explain , i wouldnt mind full pvp but with REAL and WORKING penalities and for ANY LEVEL of chars....
Now that leave open doors to many ideas... in theories i would wish for a system that would brand you as a wanted /outlaw guy . Imagine an orc killing another orc inside of a orcish city (no duel of course) in the lamest way logical consequence NPC guards and other players from the city wiling to punish him , now imagine the guy escape (even so that should be rare) , should he return there he'd would be wanted and dealt with again , now he still would let go of his murders habits kills two other ones elsewhere,or even in the same area) (the numbers subject to debate). now he would be wanted not only in the area of his crimes but on a "national scale" . If still not caught he would really become an outlaw unable to group with most people except others outlaws like him , wich could at any moment backstabs him . Now imagine again other players self specialising in outlaws hunting and collecting , aka bounty hunters . With high risks and odds , if still alive an outlaw could become the enemy of his faction , while still being enemy of the other , constantly the prey of bounty killers , NPC Guards , NPC monsters , not to mention other outlaws... IF well tweaked many lamers would think twice ... since becomming "clean" again wouldnt be easy and there would be real evil roleplay . Of course this is a system only effective when killing your own faction's people
Anyway the general idea is to heavily punish people killing outside of free pvp area or outside duels . And should they succeed into evading sanctions they life into the game should really become tough as hell...
Roleplay ex again imagine if even against all odd a group of outlaws appears as a new threat in a region , and imagine a whole group of citizens going to wipe them and that without any quest scripting or intervention of GMs !!! I'd would personaly find that pretty neat , even if again its pure theory , would need more thoughts into it , and prolly wont be as such in WoW or Near future mmo
It's true, most people that play evil only do it because they like the appearance of being a "badass." Like most people who wear leather jackets or buy motorcycles. They want people to believe they're badasses, but still cry like a little girl whenever their girlfriend scolds them (if they have one).
For me, I played a "good" ogre just because I wanted to play an ogre who was convinced he was a ranger. On top of that, the game itself (like others have mentioned) penalizes you more for being evil. But the biggest reason of all, is that you COULDN'T play a truly evil character in an MMORPG setting without making everyone around you crying and whining at you. If Numbuk was asked for a heal by a gnome who was in mortal danger of dying, and Numbuk told him to "Me no care if puny gnome dies! Me hate gnomes!" His reaction would not be "Forsooth! What a fine roleplayer ye be! I shall tell all my friends about your wonderful in character actions, and how true to character they are!" Nope. He'd whine like a little biznitch not grasping the idea of roleplay.
This, is my biggest concern about MMORPGs. People don't roleplay. Even people who believe they roleplay, usually don't 95% of the time. Why? Because it's ineffiecient. Most MMORPGers are more concerned about effeciency than role playing. It's the reason why people weren't spending points in "talents." It's the reason why people are trying to figure out the best class combinations.
I think we'll see some roleplaying going on in this game for the first 6 months of it's lifetime (and I think we'll see most of it from Battle.Net people, not ex EQers. Mark my words). After that, I am extremely pessimistic.
But I will say that I am looking forward to this game, despite all that (even if the Tauren models are far worse than they were in WC3. sigh). Whizbang's (great BFG reference) post did indeed excite me about this game. It does address most concerns I had about EQ in all the years I played on it. WoW will most certainly not be perfect. I expect to see every single race speak like every average cyber-chattter ("LOL!" "WTF?" "STFU!" "pw3nd!" etc) which is most unfortunate. I expect people to reduce the game to numbers and stats. But despite all that, it still sounds fun.
It wasn't until I accepted EQ for what it was and not what I was hoping it would be (and what it originally claimed it was going to be) that I started to have fun. I'll do the same with WoW. Hopefully it will be much easier to do that in.
Thanks guys for the info.
-Numbuk Rangerfriend
Look at your own day to day behavior... how much really distinguishes you from everyone else? Acting like you're in a movie all the time isn't really believable. Movie characters have highlights crammed into a eventful 90 minutes. MMORPG players have days worth of playtime.Quote:
Even people who believe they roleplay, usually don't 95% of the time.
Malus = malice i think right? Anyhow, just like in RL the ppl considered 'bad' or 'evil' aren't always looked too highly upon. I mean how often do you give devil worshippers a discount on your goods as a store owner? Evil race char's are supposed to do evil thinks. Yes its very stereotypical but thats how it is. On The other hand, itsh ard for good guys to get around evil areas too. There is no purely evil group in WoW Lore except the demons. Even the naga were just perverted by the magic, which was their own fault, but that does not make them inherently evil.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoLucifer
I wear my leather jacket because it makes me look good and my g/f loves it and wants to jump me everytime i wear it :pQuote:
It's true, most people that play evil only do it because they like the appearance of being a "badass." Like most people who wear leather jackets or buy motorcycles
No doubt. But do you really want to see an orc say something like "dude! you shouldda seen Hellboy last night! it was so r0x0r! I was like BOOYA!" It wouldn't upset me if this was an uncommon occurance, but it's not. Never is. Never will be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goladus
I'm not saying people need to roleplay out their ears, but at least try to act like the creature you picked for a time. I really don't see the point of having different races if people act the same anyway, especially when how they act is the same as they do in online forums.
hmmQuote:
It wouldn't upset me if this was an uncommon occurance, but it's not. Never is. Never will be.
In my EQ experience, it was indeed uncommon excepting guildchat and PoK/Dreadlands zones. And ooc chat was a symptom of a bigger problem in Dreadlands/Lake of Ill Manners-type zones.
Average groups typically wouldn't talk about real-life stuff unless it was friends, and in those cases slipping in between RP and OOC was casual and fluid. And if there was a particularly hardcore roleplayer in the group, it would quickly rub off and people would play along. (personally, I'm definitely "RP-lite" as Whizbang would put it. I get into the game but tend not to bother with personal backgrounds or strongly-affected behavior.)
As for the real fantastic creatures, like orcs-- yeah, it's really hard to get people to play a fantasy race. But I found that, in eq, the newbie environments did strongly affect people's inclination to roleplay. 4/5 Ogres and Trolls I met in the first year of playing EQ spoke "dum," much like the NPCs in the relative newbie cities. In fact I found myself doing it on my newbie shaman, despite the fact that I was a 2 year veteran and was using the character as nothing but a mule to sell swords to vendors(saving travel time for my guard-killing main). I suspect that the WoW environments will be even better in this regard (I'm really looking forward to the Dwarf city). I fully expect to see scot-talking dwarves and Jamacian-talking trolls... and Orcs replying to each other with stuff like "Zugzug," and "Lok-tar." No, not everyone will be consistant, and not everyone will RP all the time, but I think it will be enough to maintain the atmosphere, so long as you don't encounter any real jerks.
Sadly, I create detailed histories for all of my characters when I create them. MIstyr had a detailed history, and when they took my name away without giving me more than 20 seconds to think of another one, my background died instantly. Nadiar is a human Priest/Paladin/"White Necromancer" (depending on the world) who tragically lost his one true love to the undead. He's usually pretty dark and brooding, and holds an intense hatred of the undead. He is motivated by his desire to release his lover's soul from her undeath.Quote:
(personally, I'm definitely "RP-lite" as Whizbang would put it. I get into the game but tend not to bother with personal backgrounds or strongly-affected behavior.)
I never created one for Gnome-Nadiar, because I never identified Nadiar as a gnome. It's weird though, I've spent so much time role-playing a gnome, I do it on accident now =(
I was looking at this $60 analog clock that operated entirely by over-large gears, and I almost bought it just to get more into character as a gnome. ( http://www.thinkgeek.com/cubegoodies/lights/601e/ )
I call that pure garbage lol !! In the first place unless you got some reputation , or did something wrong in his area , how the hell can a redneck store owner tell that you are evil on looks ?? Now if you are from a considered evil race it got some basis at least , but how the hell can the owner of a dump in some backwater village tell that you are a chaotic evil human and so adjust prices !!!?? Tatto face ??? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by silverblaze
Malus = malice i think right? Anyhow, just like in RL the ppl considered 'bad' or 'evil' aren't always looked too highly upon. I mean how often do you give devil worshippers a discount on your goods as a store owner? Evil race char's are supposed to do evil thinks. Yes its very stereotypical but thats how it is
Besides would such a weak store owner tell right in the face of some famous Bad mofo , that he stinks and will raise his prices ??? There are stuff called fear and intimidation , he would rather flee , call guards or give you discount just to see you off
Alignements should only be used to determine the personality of the char for background purpose and/ or his skills and classes . Until he really did something a newly born chaotic evil guy should sufffer trouble , especially from NPC wich shouldnt have any way to tell what the hell he is !!! Of course in many games i could play evil , but with more malus than anything ... Of course as a bad guy , when the prices are high , i could kill some random people , but would i get more money or better items than a good guy ?? no!! Would get more powerful ?? no ...
Of course in the system i described earlier , a pk would be branded as an outlaw and so wanted , but if he does survive wouldnt that make him an uber powerful guy ?? besides it would be a good idea to give that kind of people special quests (assasination , thievery , robbery etc) with items as a reward (being evil sure need sides effects , but you should and must get some kind of avantage when you do success into surviving!!)
Evil Must exist!!! Not in the way that any stupid pvp kiddo would be freely killing without any benefit nor sides effect . they definitely need to be ass-whiped but now if one should get away from punishement he should be able to survive (at least as long as he can :p) .
I hated how some mmorpg such as mu online designed you as pk (with your name in red) and leave you unable to buy in stores or to groups but still allow you to go on some site to reset and clean their chars , and then return camping at the exit of a village and killing random people , reseting again etc etc...
Again i doubt such a system will exist for now , and some people will tell me to "simply play undeads" . Its true factions are a good solution , but why as a really evil guy shouldnt i be allowed to have my own way and at my own risks ??? (especially with the forsaken , undead with a supposed free will and still by essence evil :D)
Besides this could lead again to fun and interesting gameplay ! Imagine a outlaw human warrior , wich learned quite a bite the other faction's langages , and some factions points wich(dunno if will be added) allow "friendly" relations with the hordes . Thus he could become a traitor , a mercenary of the horde , or even a spy for them , getting assassinations , scouting or robbery quests from them . Again i would find such possiblities pretty interesting....
Not to mention the counter-side of being an outlaw , the apparitions of players bounty hunting , tracking them down for money , or item rewards or simply fun . Or the exasperation of some village's folks tired of some organized bandits group and thus organizing a cleaning raid at their hideout :D
I realize that some people are PvP fiends. I'm not one of those people. If Blizzard decides to offer a few red (full PvP) servers, i'm all for it, but if the only option was full PvP i simply would not play. I never could get into DAoC because of the PvP emphasis, i'd play for a while until it was about time to go to the RvR areas, then i'd reroll a new character. Shadowbane was totally stressful to me due to it's PvP setup, and there were no blue servers available. Having to constantly watch for thieves and PKs was just not fun to me. Any effective MMORPG needs to allow for both these playstyles, and the easiest way is to make servers with different rulesets.Quote:
Before i get killed wishing for pvp i explain , i wouldnt mind full pvp but with REAL and WORKING penalities and for ANY LEVEL of chars....
I've been playing EQ before Kunark was released. And before EQ, I was a part of a rather popular text-based MUD. Popular enough that 1500 people logged on at a time was not uncommon (that's pretty huge for a text-based MUD). This MUD allowed PVP, but there were some guidelines. You could get in trouble if the kill was not warranted (role playing or otherwise). So mostly PVP was player governed, but the GMs did get involved sometimes if it was a big enough problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by luxum
I played this MUD for over a year and a half. You know how many times I ran into a PVP situation? One. One freaking time out of that entire year and a half. And that one time, it was consentual. It was a rogue who wanted to try out his new weapon or something (I had never met him before) and we made a rule that "whoeever bleeds first or is knocked unconscious loses." He hid, laughed, I hid as well (was a ranger, was one of my skills) and so we decided not to hide. I fired one arrow into his chest. It dented his mail, and knocked him to the ground unconscious for 60 seconds (I was one hell of an archer). When he came to, he said "You win." and we became good friends.
I liked the idea that this world wasn't completely safe and happy and full of rainbow brite joy. I liked the fact that theives could pick my pocket stealing coins and gems. I liked the fact that with a high enough perception I could catch them in the act, point them out of their hiding place, and if I felt like it, dispense some vigilante justice. PKing rarely happened here.
What made this place different than EQ or anywhere else? What is it about graphical MMORPGs that brings out people's laziness and unwillingness to even try to get into character, even just a little? Was because it was text based that the people were more "intellectual" or "mature"? I don't think so. I met quite a few immature people there. I don't get it. I don't get why people are so keen on getting an immersive world, yet go out of their way to not keep others immersed based on their actions and their sayings. I don't get how as a newborn ogre I couldn't stop outsiders from killing my guards and fellow ogres, and if I tried alerting other guards, *I* was the one who would get in trouble. I just don't get it.
I'm just ranting here. Yes, I am very pessimistic about MMORPGs in general. Once you've had such a utopian experience as I have had before, you become a little spoiled and few things can ever live up to it. I know some might say "Just play on a PVP server." That doesn't solve the problem, as you well know PVP servers are little more than PK fests. That also is not what I am looking for, and not what I used to have.
I really hope WoW can at least come a little close. I really do. Regardless, there hasn't been an MMORPG that I've been interested in (including Horizons, even when it was hyped to all hell) until this one.
-Numbuk Rangerfriend
well i'm not a pvp fiend , and while i wish for a good mix of PvE and PvP , i probably wont get into PvP with most of of my chars ...
Still i think that a world authoring PvP but heavily punishing them could be good ... as long as everything is really well tweaked and preventing the more possible , abuses...
I dont need to tell that PvE game also got their form of abuses , with players , no lamers using the absence of a "free" PvP system sometimes give them some kind of protection , shield especially when its come about looting , langages , and attitudes...
On the other hand i dont wanna see ever again another kind of lamers which await people outside of a non pvp zone and randomly killing , till someone stronger than them finally wipe them... :s
Faction war , free pvp areas and duel arenas are good solutions in some way but people forget that most of those people arent your competitive warrior , or people willing to battle a war , but just lamers searching and finding ways to piss people off to compensate for their maybe as lame real life...
This lamers annoying you in your PvE quests and loots and the one killing randomly at the end of a village are pretty much same guys (and we prolly all know people who do both in different games) . Such guys wont go on a PvP server to compete among power-users with uber char builds nor they will try to participate in any way in factions wars !! No they will go on the PVE ones and find another way to piss people off...Proof is that most of them will cry on forums for PVP in all the worlds
Even if not really interested so far by MMORPG scene (WOW's exception is ay again :p) , i can easily see most PVP servers for most games quite empty , and yet it didnt solve many issues about lamers in PvE servers... so basically that kind of player only switched ways of pissing people off...
Not to mention that its another way to keep a world static ...
Besides what of the players that simply wanna be able to get ride of nuisances wich would never duel in a PvE or simply wanna be evil doers (in the "good" way) without being forced to dive into a "street figher world" ??
With quite a light death penalty system ( and of course without xp losses , being killed by one of my faction) i wouldnt mind getting killed if i know that the guy would get the suitable punishement
I'm not a pvp fiend either. Like I said, I avoided it. To know it was there, to know you weren't COMPLETELY safe added an element of realism to this violent fantasy world. If people were PKing left and right and going out of their way to cause people grief, yeah it would have sucked. But people didn't. People got along civilly for the most part. Do you know awesome that was? :D
But, like I said, I still had fun in EQ. When I accepted it for what it was and not what I wanted it to be. From the looks of it, WoW looks to be even more immersive than EQ was. A big bonus. I'm just whining about all the little details I miss.
But don't get me wrong, I am definitely going to try this game out. But I refused to sign up for the beta. I'd rather play a game that is (mostly) bug free and one that wasn't relying on me in finding those bugs, and one where my character was going to POOF for certain.
What MMORPGs did you play, Neolucifer? I played on a blue EQ server for years and there was really not a huge problem with "lamers" for the most part, although it was worse at lower levels. CS dealt with the real pricks, and the server community was a large corrective force on people who were jerks. When your name gets around and you can't get into groups or a decent guild, that becomes a real incentive to play nice. As far as people who want to "get rid of nuisances" i don't see any way to allow that short of full PvP, and i submit that a red server for those who want to game in this way is the best answer, as opposed to forcing full PvP on the general population. EQ's blue servers proved that there is a large market for PvE or restricted PvP (arenas, duels) MMORPGs, yet bafflingly most of the 2nd generation MMORPGs were PvP oriented. You say you wouldn't mind eating a death so long as the other guy is "punished," but i and many others like me would. If my character dies, i want it to be because i lost to a mob, or fell off a cliff, or something else that's my own fault, not because somebody with nothing better to do than ruin other people's fun snuck up and killed me. That makes me angry, it isn't fun for me at all.
Edit: BTW the "PvP fiend" thing was a general comment acknowledging the zekker-type players out there, not really directed at anyone in particular. ;)
i agree , this isnt about an urge to murder someone , maybe i will someday . This about knowing in a violent fantasy world that ou cant always be safe . Besides this also a matter of freedom and choices , again its not as if i wanted to murder , i just like the idea of being able to chose . Walking on a road and meeting a pretty rude person , depending of my mood and his attitude would i try something onto him ??( again , i do know how many times i said it :p , with a huge penality risks) I probably wouldnt even think of it , as i walk past him , but knowing that i had a choice rather than knowing that you cant do a jack about him , would be satisfying enoughQuote:
Numbuksaid :
to know you weren't COMPLETELY safe added an element of realism to this violent fantasy world
Exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoLucifer
Anyway... back on topic..... ummmmm
Can someone post a picture of a tauren in the middle of moving/walking? I am curious if the models just don't look good because they're not mobile and standing still.
well i think tried (mostly thanks to friends) most pay per play mmorpgs and also many free or in beta phase ones ..like i said i'm pretty biased against most actual mmorpgs :p .. and again its only an opinion since i havent tried the real thing , but with the WoW death system and the one i described i dont see how would it ruins your experience of the game.. besides in a heavy punishing game it would be quite rare , its not like if anyone you would meet would backstabs you and run . besides i still believe that the few which would dare , and would even survive/continue to play with such a ssytem could add some roleplay and makes the world dynamic ...Quote:
What MMORPGs did you play, Neolucifer?You say you wouldn't mind eating a death so long as the other guy is "punished," but i and many others like me would. If my character dies, i want it to be because i lost to a mob, or fell off a cliff, or something else that's my own fault, not because somebody with nothing better to do than ruin other people's fun snuck up and killed me. That makes me angry, it isn't fun for me at all
npc and scripts are a great thing , but the whole game cant be scripted , and relations between players cant be all the time friendly ones , as in a teletubbies world :p
mmm you dont like their models ?? so far i found them good , as the majority of the wow ones , and finally ridden of the little polygonal feels of the war3 ones .. as for the screen most i saw were indeed with standing taurens and i would to seem them move too..
I remember sitting at the guard tower in North Karana when I was level 15 thinking I was completely safe, and then a Hill Giant came by and killed the guards. I bravely escaped, though not everyone in the group did.
Again, you are a perfect candidate for a red server, since that's the sort of thing you think you'd enjoy. It's sort of annoying you telling me that me getting PKed wouldn't ruin my experience, when i know it would, i've experienced it. Even when i could get insta-resurrected (SB, the priest made it through the attack) it just pissed me off. I want to team up with my friends against the world, not other players. Just because you can't randomly kill people doesn't make it a teletubbies world.Quote:
well i think tried (mostly thanks to friends) most pay per play mmorpgs and also many free or in beta phase ones ..like i said i'm pretty biased against most actual mmorpgs .. and again its only an opinion since i havent tried the real thing , but with the WoW death system and the one i described i dont see how would it ruins your experience of the game.. besides in a heavy punishing game it would be quite rare , its not like if anyone you would meet would backstabs you and run . besides i still believe that the few which would dare , and would even survive/continue to play with such a ssytem could add some roleplay and makes the world dynamic ...
Just to clarify, i'm not critiquing your playstyle, i recognize that for some people this sort of tension with other players is fun, i'm just very happy that it seems WoW is not going with full PvP. I hope they have red servers so people who want the sort of experience you describe can enjoy it without me having to be a part of it. Peace. :D
Hey, this is Graffe's! Topics exist solely to be derailed!Quote:
Anyway... back on topic..... ummmmm
Well, how many fantasy books would sell if the two main warring factions only exchanged rude gestures and foul words with one another when they met?Quote:
Originally Posted by luxum
And how satisfying would it be if someone who was 10 levels lower than you, that was calling you rude names, goading you on, sexually advancing on you, etc., how satisfying would it be to thump him? And how satisfying would it all be when reckless PVP was punished, but yours was justified (with a text backup)?
Think of a world that is PVP capable, but without the players who exist to make other lives miserable. Trust me, it's a whole lot better than anything out there. Like Neo said, it's all about knowing you have a choice. It's nice to know it's there.
Dont worry i dont take it as a critic , forums are there to argue :p .
And btw i didnt want to mean that dying that way shouldnt annoy you and force my ways , i just wanted to show that such things would be minimal in regards of the possible enjoyable that system would introduce imho
When you said that that kind of server would suit me , i dont agree as well , most of the time (at least the few times i tried) in that kind of server you get killed all the time , without reason , and this turn into a huge pk fest wich is nt at all what i want... I also wanna be able to PvE , also wanna be able to PVP (again i prolly wouldnt but having the choice is satisfiying enough)
i understand your style of play and respect it , its just that so far mmorpgs are either heavy PvE oriented or either PVP , i just would like to see even once the two merge and without any excess or abuse , and so i'd love to see it done by such a team as blizzard , with the potentiel to do it and succeed...
Now if indeed a wow red server was indeed a success and filled with players willing to play by the "rules" why not
Still even without the system i dreamt off , WoW got and will get ,things and details to egt me far more interested by a mmorpg
ahahaha that last sentence was sooo matrix :pQuote:
Like Neo said, it's all about knowing you have a choice. It's nice to know it's there.
On a side note , the way i see things , i find perfectly normal for a single rpg game to be full PvE oriented .. now with an online i kinda always expected other interactions between people than PvE parties only , or stupid Pk ones ..
I sure dont represent the mmorpg fans communities , those are huge , but there are still much more people wich havent gottn addicted yet , or even wich doesnt like them for various reasons ...
and i think i relate to some of those , i never was much into investing several hrs for the sake of levling and killing monsters in a world without real freedom , besides exploring it , nor was i interested in world with freedom without rules and in the end turned into chaotic zones without interest
One of thoses reasons why some dont and wont get into mmorpg are imho the PvE and PVP or lately Faction PVP categories , i would even say jails , they threw themselves in and do hope that those categories wont stay the iron rules fdr all mmorpg
How many fantasy books would sell if the story was about two main warring factions' disorganized and infinitely futile attempts to wipe each other out?Quote:
Well, how many fantasy books would sell if the two main warring factions only exchanged rude gestures and foul words with one another when they met?
Eh. I'd rather call CS and get the moron suspended, personally.Quote:
And how satisfying would it be if someone who was 10 levels lower than you, that was calling you rude names, goading you on, sexually advancing on you, etc., how satisfying would it be to thump him?
Well from what i understand, on some of the Zek servers it was a complete free-for-all like you describe, which doesn't appeal to you, but on some of them there was a sort of internal policing of players who PKed newbies and such, much like you advocate.Quote:
When you said that that kind of server would suit me , i dont agree as well , most of the time (at least the few times i tried) in that kind of server you get killed all the time , without reason , and this turn into a huge pk fest wich is nt at all what i want... I also wanna be able to PvE , also wanna be able to PVP (again i prolly wouldnt but having the choice is satisfiying enough)
Trust me, i know i don't want anything to do with PvP. :p I would never try to prevent you from having it available to you, i just do not want to be forced to participate in it.Quote:
Think of a world that is PVP capable, but without the players who exist to make other lives miserable. Trust me, it's a whole lot better than anything out there.
Well my point goladus is that both ways arent good :pQuote:
Quote:
Well, how many fantasy books would sell if the two main warring factions only exchanged rude gestures and foul words with one another when they met?
How many fantasy books would sell if the story was about two main warring factions' disorganized and infinitely futile attempts to wipe each other out?
mmm like i said why not if really well done ... i sure didnt saw everything in the mmorpgs , but what i saw didnt appeal me much , and i'm kinda pessimistic in natureQuote:
Well from what i understand, on some of the Zek servers it was a complete free-for-all like you describe, which doesn't appeal to you, but on some of them there was a sort of internal policing of players who PKed newbies and such, much like you advocate.
[QUOTE]
Think of a world that is PVP capable, but without the players who exist to make other lives miserable. Trust me, it's a whole lot better than anything out there.
QUOTE]
i kinda understand what he means and also wanna see it in a game . Mind some people who love mmorpgs exactly they are , most people which doesnt like them yet , dont because of the precise way . I think game with those now classics routines should still exist but alongside games with ideas that would appeal non mmorpg fans , like the one i mentioned , should also exist and not having such ideas as an extra server :D
yeah i know pessimistic , biased , how sad :( :p
For the longest time, I hated how Blizzard was close-mouthed about WoW development. Now that I know more, I wish I didn’t. I have no idea how I can hold out for six months.
Only one thing concerns me right now: the rapid advancement at early levels.
I may be a weirdo, but I don’t get any thrill out of being powerful in a role playing game. What I love is the thrill of starting out with nothing and having to struggle my way up. I don’t see any point in blazing through ten or twenty “transition levels”, increasing your power a dozenfold in a few hours, then spending hundreds of hours to make a tiny improvement in the “end game.”
Is there a chance Blizzard has accelerated the early level progression for testing purposes, and may slow things down later?
well kopema2 there is a great chance that it is ... how would you get to test most things if players were stucks at low levels ? Besides in business ways , being a pay per month , even diablo players wouldnt pay months of a game you would just keep replaying because of an high speed leveling rate.
there is a huge different between being "user friendly" and easy . the first one mean optimizing interfaces and games mechanisms so the player got only focus on his char and play rather than struggling with a lame interface or mechanisms...
But this doesnt that the game will be easy...and i dont say that because of you , but people wich think and falsely say that the game being announced as user friendly will be for "newbies" (god i hate that word) and piece of cake
Next push in beta will be the first time players can play both Alliance and Horde at the same time, and I think everyone's itching to find out how they can interact. I suspect a lot of us will be surprised.
In any case, certain evils in WoW are easily identifiable -- the Burning Legion literally attempted to destroy the world a mere four years ago. Player warlocks are, in theory, attempting to use demonic magics AGAINST the Burning Legion, but no one trusts them. Only the undead have their trainers out in the open. Everywhere else, they're tucked around the corner or actually hidden. NPC demonic cults are a real problem in both Alliance and Horde lands, and are KOS to all.
If you showed up in town, trailed by a flaming imp, a burbling voidwalker or an ass-slapping succubus, yes, it's not at all implausible that everyone in town would see you as a bad guy. In other cases, it's more subtle, but it's not impossible in many other cases as well.
This has been exaggerated. I've been playing WoW since November, and am probably as comfortable with it and as good at it as anyone who doesn't work at Blizzard, and my newest character still hasn't broken level 20, a week and a half after I created him.Quote:
Originally Posted by kopema2
Well, the end game is a lot further off than 10 or 20 levels. Since no one has even dinged level 31 yet, we have no idea how fast or slow the progression to 60 will be yet.Quote:
I don’t see any point in blazing through ten or twenty “transition levels”, increasing your power a dozenfold in a few hours, then spending hundreds of hours to make a tiny improvement in the “end game.”
In every push and patch, they've tweaked this, sometimes speeding things up, sometimes slowing things down. It won't be until every class and race is available until we'll be able to get a good feel as to how fast XP really comes in, and Blizzard has said they won't even look at it terribly seriously until that point.Quote:
Is there a chance Blizzard has accelerated the early level progression for testing purposes, and may slow things down later?
Neo, you should try Lineage II, it has the EXACT PvP system you are describing. Lemme explain it. Normaly, everyone has a white name. If you run up to someone and start hitting them(you can anywhere except towns) your name will turn purple. If they hit back, they will turn purple as well, and the fight will be continue with no penalty to either side. However, if they do not fight back, and you kill them, your name becomes red. Red means that town gaurds will KOS you, certain normally neutral wandering NPCs around the world will KOS you, and other players can kill you with no penalty, and if you die you have a 90% chance of dropping an item. This allows totally free pvp for those who want to take the risk of becoming red, and even though it is very difficult to survive as red(the only ways to become un-red are through killing mobs your level, or dieing repeatedly) it is possible.
Now for my second point. Numbuk, for me, ANY game has one purpose, and one purpose only. That is to have fun. Yes, roleplaying definitly is more fun for some people, but from everything I have seen, they are in the minority. Therefore, if lets say 60%(probably much more) of the game populace is having fun through not roleplaying, and this ruins the game for maybe 10%(The roleplayers[not all of them] who actually care what the rest of the players do) the game, in my opinion, is a sucess. Sure it would be great for the roleplayers if anyone abided by their idea of what the race should act like, but for all the other people, casual gamers, power gamers, etc, who have NO interest in RPing, it would be very tedious, restrictive, and annoying. I'm all for roleplaying in a MMO, but you must be considerate of the vast majority of players who might insert a humorous "zug-zug" into their convos every now and then, but don't want to be constrained into the vision of a small group of people.
For the record, I intend to play on the RP server, whatever special rules it may or may not have. Barring another 9/11, I don't want to hear about real world events outside of guild and group channel. A bunch of folks standing around in Goldshire and talking about March Madness is great for them, but not what I'm interested in. If I want to talk March Madness, I do it in real life (I have a friend who works for Fox Sports, in fact, so I can mainline it as long as I can stand it), but when I'm running around in armor and smacking bandits in the mouth with a 15 pound bronze mace, that's not what I'm interested in.
For the record, my dwarf hunter does have a light background, but mostly just tieing him into the environment and the events of Warcraft III (without making him not a level 1 at the start of WoW).
Wow, I'm a bit overwhelmed (and very excited) with all the information. Thanks very much for sharing!
I had a few questions related to soloing, if you guys don't mind...
I've seen conflicting reports about soloing--some say it's difficult to do, and some say it's possible. Most likely, I'll be playing with my husband, but I don't expect that we'll be able to play all the time together. So, I imagine soloing will play a part in our online lives. I'm looking at playing a priest--has anyone seen any problems with soloing as this class?
Thanks!!
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Awenae Sylvarin
Huntress of The Shadow Order
Lanys T'vyl