So, USA's setting up another false flag war, but one that will bite us all in the ass

Yup, that sounds like an admission that the Ukraine counteroffensive is indeed regaining ground. I'd guess he wants to concentrate normal military forces in the general Donbass region to hold it till Ukraine is exhausted while using the reserves to keep control in the areas he'll pull those normal forces from. (Lets him keep his promise of not sending conscripts/students to Ukraine, while freeing up forces that he can send)
As far as I'm aware, the HIMARS the US has sent are only carrying GMLRS rocket pods which only have a range of 92kn and therefor cant strike deep into Russia. There's a version of the pods, the ATACMS, with a range of 300 kms which can, but the US has reportedly been refusing to supply that version to prevent escalation.

I would have to guess calling up the reserves is not going to be a popular move.

Putin complaining about the possibility of the war spilling into his own country and the threat of nukes is peak irony.

It seems like an obvious direction that Putin is going to have some shame election in the UK territories and then declare them part of Russia. From there he can then justify whatever the heck he wants in regards to the fighting as a defensive move. It won't work with the rest of the world, but it might solve his people problem at home if he can change the narrative to the world is attacking Russia directly.

Have seen a couple of articles about what is happening now that he said he is calling up 300k new recruits. One said that all one-way airline tickets to countries that allow Russians with no Visa are sold out, and another that showed web searches for ways out of Russia spiked big time. I also saw one today that said China is calling for all parties to meet and work on this diplomatically, but I don't think Putin even knows that word exists.

Oh, I'm sure he'd like to end the war tomorrow if he could, with all gains retained.

The reserves likely won't see combat unless things go really, really badly. This is more about making sure garrisons are staffed while the normal troops at them are thrown into the war. Doesn't help the people being called up - congrats, Muscovite, you get to man the Vladivostok base - and I get why they're all heading for the door. There's got to be zero trust at this point that he won't throw them into the fray, especially since every time he says something about the war it quickly turns into a lie.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dale

It seems like an obvious direction that Putin is going to have some sham election in the UK territories and then declare them part of Russia. From there he can then justify whatever the heck he wants in regards to the fighting as a defensive move.

---

Dead on. It's funny watching them rush the referendums to try and beat the oncoming Ukrainian troops. You wouldn't think it takes that long to run a fake election!

Russian Orthodox leader said Russian soldiers who die in the Ukraine war are committing a 'sacrifice' that 'washes away all the sins' as many citizens leave the country to avoid the draft

The UK's defense ministry said that Putin is set to announce the annexation of the occupied regions, using the referendums as justification. He'll likely then start threatening nukes if the West continues to help the Ukraine in any way, since the Ukraine would then be invading Russia from Russia's viewpoint. That's assuming he lives to make these announcements, since he left Moscow after people started flipping out over the conscription issue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eremius

I would have to guess calling up the reserves is not going to be a popular move.

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Russian propaganda says its immensely popular, with 95% of people showing up even before getting their notices, and showing a porch with maybe a dozen people on it (albeit with room for more outside the shot). I'm sure we all believe that.

On the other hand there's all the sudden new travel restrictions that would, purely coincidentally I'm sure, make it difficult to run away if you didnt want to be conscripted.

And of course there's the guy who shot his conscription officer, which I assume is a resounding endorsement of the policy. :P

In other exciting news, we have this-
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/nord-s...mage-1.6597069
https://news.sky.com/story/kremlin-s...nings-12706208
From this-
https://www.globalwitness.org/en/cam...e-russian-gas/
And with Germany wavering on the gas embargo thing, we can look at this-
Attachment 6696

What’s wrong with what he said? Perhaps you should look up some of the timeline of this and US involvement. Do you not understand the influence the US has on situations like this? And Why? Bush, Obama, Trump (sorta kinda), and now Biden all stood behind the same policy from the inception of Nord Stream 1. This was not a republican/democrat thing. Hell, even congress US issued sanctions over it (it was passed 98-2) in 2017 because Trump was being dumb with it.

edit: this was a large concern as soon as the invasion occurred. There was worry that at some point the pipelines would be attacked. CIA has been warning Germany of this for some time now.

Attacked, sure, but by who? Who has the capability and benefits from it? It wouldnt seem to be Russia. What would be the point in cutting off an export route if they might want it in the future? Just continue to "do maintenance" for however long, and hey, you might even be able to squeeze a restricted technology item or two out of it while you're at it. Plus having the Russian-owned pipeline there is an excellent excuse to extend a naval patrol presence along its length "for security" and to quietly deploy acoustic sensors along with the pipe similar to the allied SOSUS line which would make any opposing naval presence in the Baltic Sea area much more risky if things ever went south. Remember that the Baltic States are one of the areas that Russia wants to control to shorten its defensive lines, and gaining more control in the Baltic helps with that. No pipelines, no handy excuse. Doesnt mean it couldnt be Russia who did it, but there doesnt seem to be a benefit to it.

It does benefit the aggressive US policy on Russia/Ukraine to cut down Germany's ability to back off the sanctions regime as they have been making some noises about lately. The CIA warning about it is hardly definitive. Could be a legit warning, could just be them playing fuckfuck games in a similar vein to the FBI shtick of planting a news story then citing that story as cause to investigate something.

How did Trump "sorta-kinda" oppose it? He was smirked at by the Germans for suggesting it would make them reliant on Russia, and people seemed quite happy to smirk along with them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VariaVespasa

Attacked, sure, but by who? Who has the capability and benefits from it? It wouldnt seem to be Russia. What would be the point in cutting off an export route if they might want it in the future? Just continue to "do maintenance" for however long, and hey, you might even be able to squeeze a restricted technology item or two out of it while you're at it. Plus having the Russian-owned pipeline there is an excellent excuse to extend a naval patrol presence along its length "for security" and to quietly deploy acoustic sensors along with the pipe similar to the allied SOSUS line which would make any opposing naval presence in the Baltic Sea area much more risky if things ever went south. Remember that the Baltic States are one of the areas that Russia wants to control to shorten its defensive lines, and gaining more control in the Baltic helps with that. No pipelines, no handy excuse. Doesnt mean it couldnt be Russia who did it, but there doesnt seem to be a benefit to it.

It does benefit the aggressive US policy on Russia/Ukraine to cut down Germany's ability to back off the sanctions regime as they have been making some noises about lately. The CIA warning about it is hardly definitive. Could be a legit warning, could just be them playing fuckfuck games in a similar vein to the FBI shtick of planting a news story then citing that story as cause to investigate something.

How did Trump "sorta-kinda" oppose it? He was smirked at by the Germans for suggesting it would make them reliant on Russia, and people seemed quite happy to smirk along with them.

---

Signs and indications point to Russia, but you're right it remains to be seen. So we'll see (or perhaps we won't). However, Russia absolutely benefits from doing this. What would be the point of cutting off previous gas/energy? Russia cut gas shipments down nearly 90% from the previous year. Then Germany seizes a Russian-owned oil refinery (Sept 16). There's an entire history here between The US, Russia, Germany, Ukraine, and other countries that I can post about later, but most importantly though in mid May the EU basically planned to end its reliance on Russian oil, gas, and coal by 2027. Russia has insulated itself from this, so why not cut it now? It makes sense. However, we'll see what plays out.

Re: Trump. Tl;dr version is in 2017 the US senate passed sanctions by 98-2 targeting the pipeline because they thought Trump would ease existing sanctions.
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blog...ia-are-likely/ A bunch of European countries criticized this. Trump later approved sanctions for Nord Stream 2 in 2019. (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50875935)

As far as the Trump smirk and suggesting it would make Germany reliant on Russia: I hate to break it to you but that's been common knowledge for a while now. Germany started to shut down their nuclear energy and ended up purchasing it from France. There has warnings about their reliance on Russia for a long, long time. Germany has had a back and forth with Nuclear energy since the 70s (like other countries), but that increased with the accident in Fukushima in 2011. https://www.cleanenergywire.org/fact...lear-phase-out

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VariaVespasa

It does benefit the aggressive US policy on Russia/Ukraine to cut down Germany's ability to back off the sanctions regime as they have been making some noises about lately.

---

Russia would be near the bottom of the list of suspects. It does not make any tactical or economical sense to actually destroy the line. Keeping their side valved off was enough for them.

The USA is prime suspect here since it has more economic value for them to and the environmental impact won't reach them for years, they have the presence in the area to do it unseen and Biden as good as told everyone he was going to do so. As side effect, hundreds of North Europeans will freeze to death the coming winter.

I see plenty of motive for Russia to sabotage the pipe, Creates instability in NATO as heating season starts to come into play. The only way Russia gets the clamps off is making NATO blink, Putler is against the wall here and odds are his longevity in office and survival against ousting by force depends on success with in this winter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FilanFyretracker

I see plenty of motive for Russia to sabotage the pipe, Creates instability in NATO as heating season starts to come into play. The only way Russia gets the clamps off is making NATO blink, Putler is against the wall here and odds are his longevity in office and survival against ousting by force depends on success with in this winter.

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How? The thing was already "down for maintenance" in the first place, hence squeezing a "restricted export" turbine out of Canada to supposedly fix the pipe. How does blowing the pipe do that job better than just having maintenance problems for however long amuses them? The US blowing it forces Europe to stay with the US-desired course, and lets the US make some fun money shipping gas over there at high prices.

Russians are being told British military divers set off Nord Stream explosions

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VariaVespasa

How? The thing was already "down for maintenance" in the first place, hence squeezing a "restricted export" turbine out of Canada to supposedly fix the pipe. How does blowing the pipe do that job better than just having maintenance problems for however long amuses them? The US blowing it forces Europe to stay with the US-desired course, and lets the US make some fun money shipping gas over there at high prices.

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This. No matter the outcome, the moment issues are considered resolved, Russia will need money again and thus requires that line to be opened up again immediately. destroying the infra would hurt for over a decade after just to get repairs done. The only party that stands to gain from this is one that can supply an alternative for that long. The USA might try, but their shale gas fields already produce way below initially prospected supply and are also destroying the regional aquifers making the area uninhabitable in the long run.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Branaman Starbinder

This. No matter the outcome, the moment issues are considered resolved, Russia will need money again and thus requires that line to be opened up again immediately. destroying the infra would hurt for over a decade after just to get repairs done. The only party that stands to gain from this is one that can supply an alternative for that long. The USA might try, but their shale gas fields already produce way below initially prospected supply and are also destroying the regional aquifers making the area uninhabitable in the long run.

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You are assuming rational actors who are taking into consideration the medium to long-term effects, Branaman.
What happens to your analysis if you don't assume that to be true?
Who fits those criteria (irrationality and short-term outlook) better? US/Biden or Russia/Putin?

The analysis I've read indicates it's about keeping the oligarchs in line. You can't toss them all out windows, but you need them to stop considering the idea of surrendering early. Blow up the pipeline, so there's no quick influx of cash the moment an armistice is signed, and peace isn't as much of a short-term positive. Without short-term thinking to get in the way, the oligarchs start thinking long-term, and a Russia with the Ukraine's assets looks like a good future.

someone bagged the only bridge to Russia from Crimea
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63183404

Conscripted Russians Keep Mysteriously Dying Before Reaching Battlefield -- Newsweek

The Russian army has given newly drafted soldiers 'absolutely no equipment,' forcing families to buy armor and clothing so conscripts have a 'chance to come back'

Speed Cameras Stolen From Sweden May Be Ending Up in Russian Drones

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Speed cameras all over Sweden are disappearing at an alarming rate. More than 160 cameras have been stolen from rural roads, according to the New York Times, with most thefts occurring between midnight and 3 AM. Authorities are baffled over the issue. After all, who—other than some sort of vigilante pro-speeder—would want to go through all of this effort to steal something with virtually no resale value?

As it turns out, one possibility is that the stolen cameras may be finding a second life inside Russian surveillance drones being used in Ukraine. Local news reports suggest that the Swedish Security Service is aware of information potentially connecting the speed camera thefts to the ongoing conflict between Russia and Ukraine, though the Swedish government has been careful to avoid making any definitive statements in that regard so far.

On Aug. 27, eleven cameras disappeared overnight on one stretch of county road in Sweden. Three days later on Aug. 30, another 30 were stolen. By the end of the month, a total of nearly 70 cameras were taken during the month of August. Police say that unlike previous instances of vandalism, where an upset motorist simply destroys the camera by knocking it over or smashing the lens, in these cases the thieves are breaking into the cabinet housing the device's internal parts: a radar sensor to measure speed, a flash unit to illuminate a speeding subject, image processing hardware, and—the most important part to the thieves—a DSLR camera. After the cabinet is busted open, the suspects are making off with only the camera and leave behind a damaged unit that costs the Swedish Transport Administration around $22,200 apiece to repair.

According to the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet, these same cameras are being found inside customized low-tech Russian drones used in surveillance and attacks against Ukraine. In one instance, a crashed Russian Orlan-10 unmanned aerial vehicle can be seen with a Canon EOS 800D DSLR equipped with an 85mm lens. The camera body is rigged to a metal plate with a series of wires connected to it, with the lens sticking out through the drone's skin.

However, Eva Lundberg, who coordinates the traffic camera system at the Swedish Transport Administration, told the Times that the stolen cameras are actually customized Nikon DSLRs. This backs up other reports from local news outlets but complicates the theory that the cameras are being repurposed in Russian UAVs.

Lundberg says that the Nikon cameras are focused at a specific distance and "not possible to adjust," according to the traffic camera supplier. The videos showing recovered Orlan-10 UAVs have all featured Canon DSLRs thus far, though the focusing mechanisms are fixed in a similar way: the focusing mode is set to manual and fixed with epoxy, and the focusing ring is fixed to infinity, meaning that it would provide a similar focusing profile as the DSLRs nabbed from Sweden's speed cameras.

Whether or not the stolen speed cameras are being used for Russia's UAVs is still up in the air. If the cameras aren't headed to Russia for use in its drones, where might they be going? That information might soon be known to police, as one person—a Swedish citizen—was arrested in connection to the thefts Friday night.

However, if the theory of repurposing these DSLRs in Russian UAVs is accurate, it may signal that the Russian military may be pivoting to whatever gear it can get its hands on Canon officially stopped the sale and delivery of its products to Russia in March 2022 as a response to the Ukraine conflict. Constructing new UAVs with off-the-shelf parts is likely becoming harder for Russia as sanctions continue to take their toll, especially given its significant loss rate of around 50 units between February and May.

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Russia has stopped using its Iranian suicide drones because they don't work in the cold

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• Russia has stopped using Iranian-made suicide drones due to cold weather, a Ukrainian official said.
• He said that the drones were made of plastic and other materials that can't deal with frost.
• Russia has used the unmanned aircraft to knock out power infrastructure across Ukraine.

Russia has stopped using Iranian-made kamikaze drones in Ukraine because they don't work in cold weather, a Ukrainian official said.

Yevgeny Silkin, of the Joint Forces Command for Strategic Communications of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, said that Russia had stopped using the Iranian drones, which are made of plastic and other materials that are not frost resistant, according to Ukrainian news agency UNIAN.

The outlet said that the drones have not been used in Ukraine since November 17, which was also the first day that it snowed in Ukraine this year.

Winters in Ukraine can be cold, with mean temperatures often below freezing between December and March.

Russia started to use the Iranian drones in October, as part of a new playbook that targeted power distribution and other critical infrastructure from afar. Ukrainian civilians have also been killed by drone strikes.

Iran and Russia have denied any cooperation on weapons, but Iran later admitted that it had sent Russia weapons, adding that this was before Russia's invasion of Ukraine started.

Multiple reports and Western intelligence assessments have contradicted this.

The UK, US, and EU have put sanctions on the drone manufacturer and some individuals over supplying the weaponry to Russia.

CNN reported in November that Iran was preparing to send more weapons to Ukraine, including short range ballistic missiles. And it reported that Iran and Russia had reached an agreement for Russia to start producing the drones itself.

The UK's ministry of defense said on November 23 that Russia was likely running out of the drones, but that it could purchase more.

Multiple reports have also said that Iran has been training Russia on how to use the drones and other weapons.

On December 3rd, Avril Haines, the US National Intelligence Director, said that winter conditions are expected to slow the war, and that there was already a "reduced tempo."

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Oh dear oh dear...Merkel admits the Minsk Agreements were sham to let Ukraine build up a military that was intended to be a threat to Russia and seize Russian speaking areas of Ukraine.
Who'd a thunk it, eh?

Enjoy world war three, ya chumps

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202212/1281708.shtml

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silverblade

Merkel admits the Minsk Agreements were sham to let Ukraine build up a military that was intended to be a threat to Russia and seize Russian speaking areas of Ukraine.

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That is not what she said, at all. But you shouldn't be surprised that a news article FROM THE CHINESE COMMUNIST PARTY'S SITE somewhat distorts what was said.

The intent with the accord was to give Ukraine time to be able to resist Russia's inevitable invasion:

Unlike you, the leaders of the West recognized what a snake Putin was and that he was going to try and conquer Ukraine no matter what he said. Who'd a thunk it?

Delores

like, Western media isn't largely influenced or actually controlled by the CIA using a big chunk of the USA's "black budget", hm?
Exactly how many corporations control the USA's TV and newspapers today?
Remember Robert Maxwell or Gary Webb?
The West IS a bigger nightmare, it just runs its prison camp in a much more subtle way, Huxley rather than Orwell

I'll give you that Biden and Trudeau look less obvious sociopathic scumbags than Trump, but they still are sociopathic scumbags!

the hysterics of our media are...insanity
one of the latest pieces of crap, literally, was "Putin fell down the stairs and shit himself!"
ye gods

the schemes and posturing of the cabals in DC are getting way out of hand, as Biden is literally out of his mind and his VP is a cackling lunatic (is she on coke all the time?!)
So NeoCons, NeoLiberals, whatever, can get away with crap, like helping Ukraine attack Russian nuclear bases...even in the Cold War anyone who did that would end up doing LIFE or as chum in the water of the Bahamas

But hey, keep supporting the fucking lunatics, if the mushrooms sprout, know you did your bit for truth, freedom and democracy!
Satan thanks you for your efforts, you've got this! :p


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-5d7V4Sbqk

I gotta ask. Was that response an attempt to somehow argue that a communist China source is more reliable than one from Western media?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nerkahia

I gotta ask. Was that response an attempt to somehow argue that a communist China source is more reliable than one from Western media?

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Yes, but with sprinkles of qanon, too!

Russia has a very easy exit from this mess. Just leave Ukraine. Putin might shoot himself 5 times in the back after falling out a window as a result. But it’s the best path to ending the war.

Even if you choose to believe that the CIA secretly controls all western media on the same level that China (or Russia for that matter) very overtly controls their own, in order to be intellectually honest you would have to admit that both sources are unreliable and that you do not know the truth. That you chose one in order to chase conspiracies is evidence of confirmation bias.

Never mind that I linked for him the original article in German, and the relevant section translated to English showing she didn't say what he thought she said. On some level, he has to believe that there is both a secret conspiracy by Western powers to deny Russia its rightful land, and that someone who is part of that conspiracy just announced it to the entire world in a magazine interview. That's grade-A cognitive dissonance right there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Delores Mulva

Never mind that I linked for him the original article in German, and the relevant section translated to English showing she didn't say what he thought she said. On some level, he has to believe that there is both a secret conspiracy by Western powers to deny Russia its rightful land, and that someone who is part of that conspiracy just announced it to the entire world in a magazine interview. That's grade-A cognitive dissonance right there.

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Yeah, these are not the conspiracies you are seeking!

Attachment 6705

get it through your head, Delores, that the attacks on the Russian nuclear bases would normally be responded to by the Russians' own doctrine with NUCLEAR WAR
And likewise if some lunatic fuck drone striked a major continental US nuclear airbase, the criminals' entire country would be a smoking ruin...and possibly the entire world if it was Russia/China

I never thought the US would let itself have a worse government than Trump's, but wow, it managed it!

I just keep hoping the Russians and Chinese keep their revenge limited to economic annihilation, and not nuclear.

Enjoy the Apocalypse YOU are helping to create, Lemming_001! :p


Attachment 6706

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silverblade

Yeah, these are not the conspiracies you are seeking!

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We already went over that particular event. You may wish to review what was said.

And you still haven't addressed the elephant in the room: you honestly believe that Merkel admitted, in an interview where she didn't "slip up" and wasn't coerced, to everything. You believe this even though I've linked what she actually said, and you can read that it's not what your source interpreted it to be. You apparently believe this because conspiracies CAN be real, so ANYTHING can be real, so long as you believe in it. Do you not see the problem with thinking like that?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silverblade

get it through your head, Delores, that the attacks on the Russian nuclear bases would normally be responded to by the Russians' own doctrine with NUCLEAR WAR

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So everybody's on the same page here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...ssile-barrage/

On the 5th, drone strikes from Ukraine (Ukraine didn't directly confirm, but looks likely) hit two Russian airbases deep within Russia. These bases were being used to launch missile strikes into Ukraine. The planes being used are also part of the strategic nuclear bomber force for Russia, the same way America's bombers can launch both cruise missile strikes and nuclear bombs. These airbases are as far from Ukraine as Moscow, so these strikes were taken very seriously by the Russians.

Now, to Silverblade's point: yes, the Russians might normally launch a nuclear attack on whoever attacked them. But in this case, they'd be launching it at Ukraine, the country right next to themselves. They aren't quite stupid enough to create nuclear fallout next door, fallout that could likely hit themselves. Or did you think that the Russians would start shooting at anyone supplying weapons to Ukraine? Hell, for all I know you still think this is a "false flag" war and it's actually Americans shooting at the Russians.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silverblade

I never thought the US would let itself have a worse government than Trump's, but wow, it managed it!

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I wish I could see your face when you realize (IF you ever realize) exactly who has been giving you information on this conflict. At least they consider you a comrade.

Putin supposedly loves threatening nuclear retaliation. I thought he must just be crazy at first, but it's apparent he is using their nuclear arsenal in an attempt to bully other countries. Capitulating puts MAD at risk and only encourages him to do it more. Heck it encourages him to actually use them more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Delores Mulva

They aren't quite stupid enough to create nuclear fallout next door, fallout that could likely hit themselves.

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That's what all the jumbo sized fans at the border are for.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ys/ar-AA15zHUz

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• The New York Times published a detailed investigation on Russia's blunders in Ukraine.
• A Ukrainian official said they realized a large number of calls were made from foreign numbers.
• They used the calls, and even a TikTok video, to locate the position of Russian troops and attack.

Russian soldiers in Ukraine made worried calls home as their efforts in Ukraine faltered — but their loved ones weren't the only ones listening.

Ukrainian forces used the cell phone calls made by Russian soldiers to locate them and wipe the troops out in large numbers, according to an investigation published by The New York Times that details Russia's blunders throughout the war.

"We listened to the Russian soldiers as they panicked and called their friends and relatives," a Ukrainian official who leads the efforts to intercept the phone calls told The Times. "They used ordinary phones to make decisions about their further moves."

Ukrainian authorities who monitor cell networks for criminal activity noticed that a large number of calls were being placed from foreign phone numbers in an area along the Ukraine and Belarus border. The officials deduced the unusual uptick in foreign numbers on the Ukrainian network were likely Russian soldiers.

Ukraine deployed teams of women to follow the soldiers' calls and alert the Ukrainian military, which would carry out attacks using the information. "We understood where the enemy was, what numbers they were using," the Ukrainian official told The Times.

At one point, Ukrainian forces used both the cell phone calls and a TikTok video to locate a unit of Chechen soldiers outside of Kyiv. Maj. Gen. Kyrylo Budanov, chief of Ukraine's military intelligence, told The Times the unit's location was confirmed only 40 minutes after the video was uploaded. Ukrainian forces then struck them with three missiles.

Ukrainian officials have frequently intercepted phone calls made by Russian soldiers since the invasion 10 months ago. Audio of the calls obtained by various outlets have captured Russian soldiers complaining about being unprepared and unorganized and hoping they would get injured so they could be sent home.

In new audio published by The Times, soldiers could be heard complaining about Russian President Vladimir Putin and saying they are being treated like "cannon fodder."

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Delores Mulva

Russia its rightful land

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Addressing ONLY the quoted bit- rightful land? By what standard are you judging it to be Russia's rightful land? Was it not ceded during the breakup of the USSR as part of the creation of Ukraine? I can certainly understand Russia wanting it- lotsa good stuff in Ukraine. All that lovely oil, for a start, followed up by 2 of the 9 defense points that have been the primary goal of Russian foreign policy for the past 500 years, along with securing the full viability of a 3rd (Crimea) by unblocking the water supply. But having good reasons to want it is not the same as having a right to it any more than they had a right to bits of Georgia (another of the 9 defense points). So by what standard is it Russia's rightful land?

Ackar- Never mess with the autist brigades- If they can find Shia Lebeoufs' flags inside 2 days with nothing but a picture of the flag and a clear sky then poorly-trained troops with cell-phones and social media got no chance. :)

Delores was not suggesting that this was Russia's rightful land, but rather that this is something someone might believe if they were so insistent on defending Russia in this war.

Correct.

One of Russia's key points at home, based on conversations my Russian friend has with her parents back home, is that Ukraine isn't a "real" country but rather one manufactured by the West to weaken the Rus' people. The extreme nationalists in Russia regard the reunification of Kievan Rus' as a key goal of this invasion, and that the land being taken is rightfully Russian. I feel like it might be part of why the Russians are OK with killing and starving Ukrainians with their bombardment campaign, but are avoiding bombing the country flat. The people can be written off as enemies, but the land itself is highly symbolic and cannot be destroyed or defaced. My friend left the Soviet Union in her mid-teens some thirty years ago, and she still gasps in shock and gets angry when she sees extensive bombing damage in any of the hero cities in Ukraine.

But Russia is using massive artillery barrages as their main method of advancing, destroying everything with inaccurate but high volume of artillery shells.

That to me seems very much like "destroying the land" (and everything on it and in it). Going Scorched Earth after they realized early on that they won't sweep the country and be greeted as liberators, runs completely counter to the propaganda that Putin is trying to spread in Russia. Remember that the objective is to liberate Ukraine and it's people from a Neo-Nazies regime. This being done with actual neo-nazi mercenaries amongst other things.

There is no logic other than Putins own long-standing plan to correct what he sees as the biggest tragedy in recent history, namely the fall and dissolution of the Soviet empire. That's what he wants his legacy to be, and is betting everything on it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Delores Mulva

Correct.

One of Russia's key points at home, based on conversations my Russian friend has with her parents back home, is that Ukraine isn't a "real" country but rather one manufactured by the West to weaken the Rus' people. The extreme nationalists in Russia regard the reunification of Kievan Rus' as a key goal of this invasion, and that the land being taken is rightfully Russian. I feel like it might be part of why the Russians are OK with killing and starving Ukrainians with their bombardment campaign, but are avoiding bombing the country flat. The people can be written off as enemies, but the land itself is highly symbolic and cannot be destroyed or defaced. My friend left the Soviet Union in her mid-teens some thirty years ago, and she still gasps in shock and gets angry when she sees extensive bombing damage in any of the hero cities in Ukraine.

---

Which is hilarious as Kyiv (and Ukraine) is older than Moscow

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ninetoes

Which is hilarious as Kyiv (and Ukraine) is older than Moscow

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That's actually kinda the point, from the Russian point of view: The birthplace of Russian culture should be part of Mother Russia.

Meanwhile, I add this tidbit for the purely sophomoric reason that the phrase "sausage tycoon" makes me giggle:

Russian sausage tycoon Pavel Antov dies in Indian hotel fall

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Article excerpt

Reports in Russian media said Mr Antov, 65, had fallen from a window at the hotel in the city of Rayagada on Sunday.

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The windows claim another victim!

Something positive from the war: Ukrainian troops found a Roman settlement while digging a trench.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Delores Mulva

The windows claim another victim!

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These Russian critics of the Ukrainian special operation do get remarkably careless when they get near balconies and windows. They should stay on the ground floor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PPatty

These Russian critics of the Ukrainian special operation do get remarkably careless when they get near balconies and windows. They should stay on the ground floor.

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Oopsie

If there is one international law that even Russians cant avoid its gravity.

The Russian Orthodox advent calendar is pretty neat this year. Each day you open a window and an oligarch falls out.

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Originally Posted by Silke

The Russian Orthodox advent calendar is pretty neat this year. Each day you open a window and an oligarch falls out.

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That is some high quality dark humor right there.

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Originally Posted by Milton Finkelstein

But Russia is using massive artillery barrages as their main method of advancing, destroying everything with inaccurate but high volume of artillery shells.

That to me seems very much like "destroying the land" (and everything on it and in it). Going Scorched Earth after they realized early on that they won't sweep the country and be greeted as liberators, runs completely counter to the propaganda that Putin is trying to spread in Russia. Remember that the objective is to liberate Ukraine and it's people from a Neo-Nazies regime. This being done with actual neo-nazi mercenaries amongst other things.

There is no logic other than Putins own long-standing plan to correct what he sees as the biggest tragedy in recent history, namely the fall and dissolution of the Soviet empire. That's what he wants his legacy to be, and is betting everything on it.

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yeah....right, really. Suuuuuuuuuuure! They are wasting lots of useful shells missing everything! :rolleyes:
Go ask the Wehrmacht of 1941-45 how "bad" Russian artillery was.
Today it's far far more horribly effective :(

You do know Ursula Von Der Leyen accidentally let slip the real Ukrainian military death toll is over 100,000 hm?
Probably about 200,000 now, nearly all their professional military is long gone, they are driving poor sods in civilian trucks and cars to the front lines and even in battle...and have for months forcing their men into insane attacks over open ground with little armour or artillery support.
Since Stage 2 the Russians SOP is simply to pull the Ukrainians out of defences/towns by withdrawing and pulling the enemy into prepared defences, and blow them to bits in the open
Zelensky keeps ordering his generals to do that (and they are pissed at him for it but hey America rules things in reality) and to shoot folk who retreat (those Nazis you all deny are doing that and are actually now at times being shot at by their own side who're fed up with the sick MTFers)


Oh and Russia has run out of ammo and missiles...as said every week according to Western propaganda.
Like the Russians are supposed to be getting artillery shells off North Korea, but the reality is, it's AMERICA who went begging to South Korea for 155mm shells, because the West sold off 80% of it's manufacturing capacity to enrich the bankers and CEOs

HINT: Western propaganda is largely PROJECTION, it's what the West does/is/plans etc projected onto the opponent

This isn't WW2 folks, where US had superb engineers and vast factory capacity
The piece of shit M-777 shows the crazy reality the US lives in now :(
Vastly over priced, small (for what's needed) numbers of very unreliable crap, needing huge logistics train, to keep corporate profits maximized and it's incapable of prolonged use.
Western military is geared for colonial warfare against backward, easy opponents, not all out war vs peer opponents.

By the way, other week it emerged the German army's self propelled howitzer system is so bad only 30% of them are viable!

Also, Russians have very short supply lines and every resources they need for war production inside their own country, be it tungsten to microchips (you do NOT need the latest 6nm chips for drones, missiles etc and look who invented half the lithography systems for chip making).

oh and if any of you had the slightest intellectual and moral honesty, you'd have noted the many videos/pics from Ukraine, some from Western news outlets which got censored but some of it got out, of Ukrainian armoured vehicles of "Kraken" and such, not merely painted with the Nazi-era "Iron Cross", but with the Reich's Eagle, Black Sun and even the crossed grenades of SS Dirlewanger



Sigh I know I'm whistling in the wind, but when, like after Afghanistan, Iraq TWICE, etc the shit comes out...you lot ain't getting way with pretending you didn't support yet another "Western genocide for profit".
except this one has actually started World War Three and we best hope it doesn't go "shrooms", cause there may not be anyone left to put us away in lead coffins :p

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Originally Posted by Silke

The Russian Orthodox advent calendar is pretty neat this year. Each day you open a window and an oligarch falls out.

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The Church the Ukrainians have banned, taken over buildings etc, hm?
just like they banned all opposition parties, took over the media etc
Zelensky and Co are not "democratists", they are just like South Vietnam and many other tin pot murderous regimes the US used through the years.

it'll be a toss up who gets Zelensky:
CIA/Mi6 to cover their tracks and make a martyr,
the Nazis for him and his minions being Jewish and losing the war,
or ordinary Ukrainians when they realize most of the young male population has been sent to their deaths by Mr Z and the West.
Oh and Mossad, many of whom are fucking furious at Israel being dragged into WW3, and the USA using Nazis whom Mossad bitterly complained about for years


and hope you all enjoy the sabotage and assassination cycles CIA/Mi6 started, as what goes around, comes around :(

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Originally Posted by Silverblade-T-E

yeah....right, really. [...]

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You have become what you have previously raged against - A propagandist for war criminals, dictators and autocrats.

You should turn off the internet and seek mental help.

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Originally Posted by Silke

The Russian Orthodox advent calendar is pretty neat this year. Each day you open a window and an oligarch falls out.

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damn I guess that has to replace the Nakatomi Christmas Calendar, You only get one window drop on that one.

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Originally Posted by Silverblade-T-E

The Church the Ukrainians have banned, taken over buildings etc, hm?
just like they banned all opposition parties, took over the media etc
Zelensky and Co are not "democratists", they are just like South Vietnam and many other tin pot murderous regimes the US used through the years.

it'll be a toss up who gets Zelensky:
CIA/Mi6 to cover their tracks and make a martyr,
the Nazis for him and his minions being Jewish and losing the war,
or ordinary Ukrainians when they realize most of the young male population has been sent to their deaths by Mr Z and the West.
Oh and Mossad, many of whom are fucking furious at Israel being dragged into WW3, and the USA using Nazis whom Mossad bitterly complained about for years


and hope you all enjoy the sabotage and assassination cycles CIA/Mi6 started, as what goes around, comes around :(

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Fuck off you apologist for monsters and war criminals - SLAVA UKRAINI

Boebert(the idiot) says the stalemate in the house is okay because it means the US is sending less money to Ukraine.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...56336.html?amp

I bet shes somehow a Putin agent.

Too dumb to be an agent. Patsy at best.

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Originally Posted by Wool

Too dumb to be an agent. Patsy at best.

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I go with she's simply an idiot and moron all wrapped up in one.

What...

...what's happening here?

Silverblade, are you arguing that Putin is in the right here?

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Originally Posted by Merrick ap'Milandra

What...

...what's happening here?

Silverblade, are you arguing that Putin is in the right here?

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Yes. Yes he is.

Our operating theory is that, through the usual conspiracy sites that Silverblade would tend to visit, he's stumbled into one of those right-wing or "Enlightened Centrist" conspiracy sites. Those places are all over Putin's nutsack. It's unfortunate, because Silverblade is a Tory hater through and through. But it looks like he's double-fisting the Kool-Aid and putting some more of it in an IV.

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Originally Posted by Merrick ap'Milandra

What...

...what's happening here?

Silverblade, are you arguing that Putin is in the right here?

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He consistently sides with Russia and blames Ukraine and Ukrainian Jews who are somehow patsies for Ukrainian Nazis. He of course ignores that actual size of Azov, how they have actually distanced themselves from Nazism, how Russia employs actual Nazis in Wagner Group mercs, the war crimes Russia has committed in this illegal invasion and actual antisemitism like Russia directly targetting a Holocaust Memorial.

None of which should suprise anyone, as the Russia fascists have consistently tried to commit genocide against the Ukrainian people since almost the beginning of the USSR.

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Originally Posted by Delores Mulva

Our operating theory is that, through the usual conspiracy sites that Silverblade would tend to visit, he's stumbled into one of those right-wing or "Enlightened Centrist" conspiracy sites. Those places are all over Putin's nutsack. It's unfortunate, because Silverblade is a Tory hater through and through. But it looks like he's double-fisting the Kool-Aid and putting some more of it in an IV.

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The dirtbag left has been all over Putin's nutsack - known apologists for fascists like Matt Taibbi, Gregg Greenwald and even Noam Chomsky either cape directly for Putin or think Ukraine should just give up their sovereignty to make it easy on Russia.

There's not many of those, though, outside the real dedicated tankies. Being pro-Putin is, sadly, a more mainstream Right thing.

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Originally Posted by Delores Mulva

Being pro-Putin is, sadly, a more mainstream Right thing.

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This. For years and years, it has been "Russian over Democrat" and if you support Trump you support Russia. There's a reason why USA's right-wing folks are played on Russian State TV. It's also likely why in order to be elected speaker, McCarthy had agreed to cut aid to Ukraine.

He could face a problem there as many normal republicans do support continuing to provide the tools to HIMARS Putin in the nutsack.

Judging strictly from his last two posts I think its more accurate to say Silverblade is saying both sides are assholes, and Ukraine isnt doing anything like as well as the media is saying, thats all. As to the truth of how theyre doing, who really knows? Best you can really do is watch how the front lines are moving. That, at least, is harder to obscure.

He does consistently say both sides are bad, but he also tends to use that as justification for why what Putin is doing is okay. Or as a way to blame the West for something.

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Originally Posted by VariaVespasa

Judging strictly from his last two posts I think its more accurate to say Silverblade is saying both sides are assholes, and Ukraine isnt doing anything like as well as the media is saying, thats all. As to the truth of how theyre doing, who really knows? Best you can really do is watch how the front lines are moving. That, at least, is harder to obscure.

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I know this video series has been mentioned on your “other” forum but I really like Perun.

https://youtube.com/@PerunGamingAU

He goes into a lot of deep detail and analysis over various aspects of the war. He’s pro Ukraine but he doesn’t let that bias his analysis too much. He posts about once a week so it’s isn’t about short term battles but a look at the war in a bigger picture.

Right now it seems that Russia has completely stalled. The only point they’re attacking is Bakhmut and that seems to be out of stubborn pride more than anything. My understanding is that Ukraine hasnt fully reinforced the area because they’re content to let Russia make this Verdun 2.0 by keeping enough forces there to hold Russia back while allowing for offensive operations in other areas. With that being said it seems both sides have slowed down considerably.

Which is exactly what was expected during winter. Once it warms up we'll be able to see who has the momentum.

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Originally Posted by VariaVespasa

Judging strictly from his last two posts I think its more accurate to say Silverblade is saying both sides are assholes, and Ukraine isnt doing anything like as well as the media is saying, thats all. As to the truth of how theyre doing, who really knows? Best you can really do is watch how the front lines are moving. That, at least, is harder to obscure.

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Or, you know, talk to actual Ukrainians, or folks in touch with their Ukrainian relations (those that haven't been butchered or kidnapped)

James Comer Says Ukraine an 'Adversary' as GOP Plans Investigation

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James Comer, the chair of the House Committee on Oversight and Accountability, appears to list Ukraine as one of the U.S.'s "adversaries across the world" as House Republicans vote to set in motion several investigations into Joe Biden's administration.

The Kentucky Representative, speaking with host Sean Hannity on Fox News about "influence pedalling," described a "pattern here with communist China, with Ukraine, with Russia, with our adversaries across the world" as they discussed planned investigations into the Biden family's business dealings and federal agencies.

He then linked these countries with "bad decisions that Joe Biden makes, and this White House makes every day that has a detrimental effect on every American, you wonder, is this president compromised?"

Washington has been one of Kyiv's most strident backers, with President Biden welcoming Ukrainian leader Volodymyr Zelensky to the White House on December 21.

It was the Ukrainian president's first trip outside the country's borders since the outbreak of the war on February 24.

Addressing Zelensky ahead of Christmas, Biden reinforced the country's "unequivocal and unbending support for Ukraine."

But the Kentucky congressman previously told Newsmax's John Bachman Now show that there had been "no transparency" in how aid had been used in the war-torn country.

He stressed the need for accountability to the U.S. taxpayer, but added he was "concerned" about the tide of the war, and should the U.S. pull its significant military aid support to Kyiv.

Although "Putin is not good," Comer continued, "we have a lot of concerns about Ukraine, too."

"I have a lot of questions about what is going on in Ukraine with respect to foreign aid."

He went on to argue that he did not believe the Ukrainian government "can honestly think that Republicans are going to continue to give them a blank check like the Biden administration is."

On October 18, 2022, now-House Speaker Kevin McCarthy told Punchbowl News that there would be far less appetite to write a "blank check" to Kyiv if Republicans won a House majority.

The Department of Defense announced more than $3 billion in additional aid to Ukraine on January 6, which would include around 50 Bradley Fighting Vehicles, 100 M113 Armored Personnel Carriers and additional ammunition for HIMARS, or high mobility artillery rocket systems.

Laura Cooper, deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia, Ukraine and Eurasia, said in a Defense Department press release that the war in Ukraine "is at a critical point right now, and we have to do everything we can to help the Ukrainians continue to resist Russian aggression."

The White House has committed more than $24 billion in military aid to Ukraine since Moscow launched its February invasion.

Rep. Comer has been contacted for comment.

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Originally Posted by Ninetoes

Or, you know, talk to actual Ukrainians, or folks in touch with their Ukrainian relations (those that haven't been butchered or kidnapped)

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Why would they have any better idea of the overall situation really? Neither side (government)is likely to be telling the unvarnished truth for various obvious reasons. Beyond that the best most people can do is know which side of the front lines theyre on and if they can hear the fighting. There's some word of mouth, sure, but enough to form a full picture that many people have access to? Not so much.

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James Comer, the chair of the House Committee on Oversight and Accountability, appears to list Ukraine as one of the U.S.'s "adversaries across the world"...

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What in the actual fuck?

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... as House Republicans vote to set in motion several investigations into Joe Biden's administration.

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Standard bullshit tar-and-feathering operating procedure for the right-wingers THERE, but that still doesn't explain listing Ukraine as an ADVERSARY.

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The Kentucky Representative, speaking with host Sean Hannity on Fox News

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Oh. Nevermind. THAT explains it. *sigh*

I swear, we need more news outlets that spend time debunking the dumb shit Fox spews. Just repost the garbage they spread complete with all of the facts proving it utterly incorrect. You could title it: "When Fox Attacks! Tuesdays on Animal Planet" or something.

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Originally Posted by Ninetoes

The dirtbag left has been all over Putin's nutsack - known apologists for fascists like Matt Taibbi, Gregg Greenwald and even Noam Chomsky either cape directly for Putin or think Ukraine should just give up their sovereignty to make it easy on Russia.

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The *LEFT*?

Clearly I am avoiding all of the right folks. I don't know who the other two are and generally consider Chomsky to be a bloviating tardfarmer who reads like he's trying to turn the most self-righteous parts of ivory tower academia into an even bigger game of dirty cookie, but this wouldn't generally be the sort of fellating I'd expect out of the left.

Apparently I should be, though.

Mind blowingly moronic.

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...or think Ukraine should just give up their sovereignty to make it easy on Russia.

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Anyone who thinks that it bonkers.

Like...

WTF.

Bully tries to steal lunch money.

Bully gets ass kicked. Hard. And Repeatedly. By intended victim.

People think intended victim should just give up lunch money anyway?

HELLS NO.

A lot of those types of people are just cowards afraid of what might happen if the bully does not get what they want. It's a lot easier to be "good" when there is no risk to yourself.

Russian Attack on CIVILIAN apartment building kills 29

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Ukrainian authorities say there is little hope of rescuing any more survivors from the rubble of a collapsed apartment block in the city of Dnipro a day after it was hit by Russian missiles, with dozens of people expected to have been killed.

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I eagerly await that apologist Silverblade to explain how it's actually Ukraine/US/Britain/whothefuckever's fault for getting in the way of innocent Russian missiles or similar bullshit.

I will never believe this kind of strike is anything but deliberate targeting of civilians. It’s how Russia works in war. “Hey vlad should we shoot a HIMARS, a legit military target of high tactical value? Nah let’s murder civilians instead”.

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Originally Posted by FilanFyretracker

I will never believe this kind of strike is anything but deliberate targeting of civilians. It’s how Russia works in war. “Hey vlad should we shoot a HIMARS, a legit military target of high tactical value? Nah let’s murder civilians instead”.

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I wonder if that's because they see their own civilian support for their side of the war flagging and think "what better way to get the other guys to give up then make THEIR civilians hate the war, too?" without realizing it doesn't typically work like that.

It's absolutely deliberate, but outside of "it's evil" I can't wrap my brain around WHY so many military forces do it when invading other countries.

The current head of Russia's strategy has stated that his goal is to make Ukraine unlivable for its citizens, and talked about targeting banking infrastructure next to throw the civilian population into chaos.

too bad HIMARS cant reach the Kremlin.

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Originally Posted by FilanFyretracker

I will never believe this kind of strike is anything but deliberate targeting of civilians. It’s how Russia works in war. “Hey vlad should we shoot a HIMARS, a legit military target of high tactical value? Nah let’s murder civilians instead”.

---

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Originally Posted by Delores Mulva

The current head of Russia's strategy has stated that his goal is to make Ukraine unlivable for its citizens, and talked about targeting banking infrastructure next to throw the civilian population into chaos.

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Yeah... see Syria and anyone else.

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Originally Posted by Merrick ap'Milandra

The *LEFT*?

Clearly I am avoiding all of the right folks. I don't know who the other two are and generally consider Chomsky to be a bloviating tardfarmer who reads like he's trying to turn the most self-righteous parts of ivory tower academia into an even bigger game of dirty cookie, but this wouldn't generally be the sort of fellating I'd expect out of the left.

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A little horseshoe theory going on here with folks like Chomsky, but some of the other folks Ninetoe's mentioned are a little disingenuous to say they're left (e.g. Matt Taibbi stirs the shit pot and that's about it. He's pro-whatever gets him attention. Not to mention he lived/worked in Russia for 6 years or something close. Gregg Greenwald has sort of regularly shit on the "cultural" left before, but pretty much bathed in the Fox News attention since the mid-Trump administration and promotes a pro-Russian stance via Fox News since Trump). /shrug.

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Originally Posted by Ronin

A little horseshoe theory going on here with folks like Chomsky, but some of the other folks Ninetoe's mentioned are a little disingenuous to say they're left (e.g. Matt Taibbi stirs the shit pot and that's about it. He's pro-whatever gets him attention. Not to mention he lived/worked in Russia for 6 years or something close. Gregg Greenwald has sort of regularly shit on the "cultural" left before, but pretty much bathed in the Fox News attention since the mid-Trump administration and promotes a pro-Russian stance via Fox News since Trump). /shrug.

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Taibbi and Greenwald were both embraced by elements of the Left, which is why I described them as dirtbag left - along with those Chapo House fucks.

Greenwald especially was lauded by supporters of Senator Sanders.

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Originally Posted by Ninetoes

Taibbi and Greenwald were both embraced by elements of the Left, which is why I described them as dirtbag left - along with those Chapo House fucks.

Greenwald especially was lauded by supporters of Senator Sanders.

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Yeah, that's a fair point, but also a shame. Taibbi and Greenwald are definitely and in that group that goes really quickly to authoritarianism.

Pretty decent opinion piece on this exact thing here: https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-...ulsi-rcna64256

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Originally Posted by Ronin

Yeah, that's a fair point, but also a shame. Taibbi and Greenwald are definitely and in that group that goes really quickly to authoritarianism.

Pretty decent opinion piece on this exact thing here: https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-...ulsi-rcna64256

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Taibbi was always a scumbag - I remember when he'd brag about his sexual exploits in Russia. Greenwald too - anyone who thinks an editor is censorship does not have a strong grip on reality.

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Originally Posted by FilanFyretracker

too bad HIMARS cant reach the Kremlin.

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Yet. They can currently get about 2/3 of the way. Not that Ukraine has that version, but it wouldnt surprise me if the US develops a non-export version that could do it in a few years.

Here comes the heavies

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ks/ar-AA16HMFH

It's not actually the two-and-a-half dozen M1s that matter -- they won't arrive for several months, at the earliest. But sending the Abrams gives Germany cover to give other nations permission to send their Leopard 2s, which are what the Ukrainians actually want. The German tanks can be delivered much sooner, since they would come from the existing stocks of European nations near Ukraine, and they supposedly need less maintenance and crew training.

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Originally Posted by PPatty

Here comes the heavies

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ks/ar-AA16HMFH

It's not actually the two-and-a-half dozen M1s that matter -- they won't arrive until next spring, at the earliest. But by agreeing to send the Abrams, it gives the Germans cover to give other nations permission to send their Leopard 2s, which are what the Ukrainians actually want. The German tanks can be delivered much sooner, since they would come from the existing stocks of European nations near Ukraine, and they're supposedly need less maintenance and crew training.

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I believe they are also getting Bradley IFVs now too - those things are certified tank killers too.

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Originally Posted by Ninetoes

I believe they are also getting Bradley IFVs now too - those things are certified tank killers too.

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Interesting online chatter (reddit, mostly) regarding the effectiveness of tanks vs Bradleys. In any case, getting a significant number of vehicles (apparently the Leopards won't be just basic versions? 2A6s rather than 2A4s?) is anticipated to make a big difference on the ground.

I think the symbolism of this new multi-lateral commitment may be almost as important as the actual impact on combat operations. It should communicate to Putin and his generals that Western support isn't going away any time soon. If anything, it's growing stronger over time.

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Originally Posted by Zarbonius

Interesting online chatter (reddit, mostly) regarding the effectiveness of tanks vs Bradleys. In any case, getting a significant number of vehicles (apparently the Leopards won't be just basic versions? 2A6s rather than 2A4s?) is anticipated to make a big difference on the ground.

I think the symbolism of this new multi-lateral commitment may be almost as important as the actual impact on combat operations. It should communicate to Putin and his generals that Western support isn't going away any time soon. If anything, it's growing stronger over time.

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Haven't checked Reddit - but read up on the Battle Of 73 easting to see what Bradley's can do against Russian tanks.

Attachment 6710

Meanwhile up north the beavers are doing their part too.
https://www.businessinsider.com/ukra...ams-2023-1?amp

basically they are turning an area near the Belarus border into a swampy mess, Which means if a push from that country happens anytime soon it would have limited paths it could take without being bogged down. Which would be a very happy day for Ukrainian artillery.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zarbonius

Interesting online chatter (reddit, mostly) regarding the effectiveness of tanks vs Bradleys. In any case, getting a significant number of vehicles (apparently the Leopards won't be just basic versions? 2A6s rather than 2A4s?) is anticipated to make a big difference on the ground.

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Casual google says that the Spanish Leopards supposed to be heading there are 2A4s. Its what Spain has, anyway. And Canada is apparently going to send 4 also (Which is approximately 732% of our entire army, probably... :P ). Not sure what Poland has, but the German ones will be 2A6's at least. Hopefully Ukraine has paid attention to the lesson the Turks were reminded of in Syria, where their Leopards did not have a good time, and use them properly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpPpCWEZjSo

Doesnt the US have something like 3k Abrams just sitting in storage somewhere due to rampant overproduction? Still months to refurbish them and deal with any armor package issues they may have mind you, but at least they wont have to be pulled from active-use roles.

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Originally Posted by Ninetoes

Attachment 6710

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Attachment 6715


:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

WELL WHO'D A FUCKING THUNK IT, EH?!

https://nypost.com/2023/02/08/seymou...ine-explosion/

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Pulitzer winner Seymour Hersh claims US Navy behind Nord Stream 2 pipeline explosion


Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Seymour Hersh has alleged US Navy divers laid bombs that destroyed the Nord Stream 2 natural gas pipeline under the Baltic Sea last September, drawing a denial from the Pentagon Wednesday.

Hersh, who scooped journalism’s top award more than five decades ago for exposing the My Lai massacre of Vietnamese civilians by US troops in 1968, cited an unnamed source in reporting on Substack that Americans planted remotely triggered explosives that wrecked three of the four pipelines built to carry natural gas from Russia to Europe.

Hersh, 85, went on to claim that the Navy conducted the operation under the cover of a NATO maritime exercise, BALTOPS 22.

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Yankee backstabbing BASTARDS destroyed Europe and LITERALLY started World War Three, to stay on top of the world at ANY cost!
Casus Belli deluxe for Russia.

You jackasses realize that all the weapons Germany etc are supposed to make, are NEVER coming off the factory floors, hm?
nearly every aluminium and iron smelter in Europe has shut down or is in reduced work, I explained that was coming over a year ago before things got even worse
Modern high tech steels require GAS or electric furnaces to refine
Ceramic, glass, cement, ammonia and many other production systems have shut down
Your fucking insane government lied about the non-farm job figures cause like Europe and UK, they are NOSE diving

Unlike our scumbag systems, the Russians didn't get rid of their manufacturing sector
Putin's been quietly breaking the Oligarchs of their power for over a decade
Their stuff WORKS, they have shit tons of it, and all we can reply with is drips and drabs and media lies

FFS!! this makes the totally fucked up start of WW1 and 2 look like master pieces of Allied genius by comparison! *face palm*

and stop fucking lying to yerselves and believing the Western media SHYTE!
we're manipulated worse than the Soviets or Nazis ever achieved!


Thank you for making "Fallout" a likely reality, Mind Controlled NPCs of Graffe's!
Your corporate masters thank you!

Attachment 6716



Attachment 6717


Attachment 6718

To steal a quote from Twitter:

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For folks who're finding out about Sy Hersh for the first time, his other recent works include elaborate fan fictions about why Assad never used chemical weapons and that the Bin Laden raid didn't happen (and that he wasn't responsible for 9/11 either).

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So yeah, don't believe his lies.

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Originally Posted by Silverblade

WELL WHO'D A FUCKING THUNK IT, EH?!

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What, that you would swallow the claim of a journalist that's been criticized extensively in the past 20 years for relying on single anonymous sources? Everyone would have thought that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silverblade

You jackasses realize that all the weapons Germany etc are supposed to make, are NEVER coming off the factory floors, hm?
nearly every aluminium and iron smelter in Europe has shut down or is in reduced work, I explained that was coming over a year ago before things got even worse

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Germany exported 8.35 billion Euros in arms in 2022. While German manufacturing was projected in the Fall to decline in Winter due to gas prices, manufacturing held steady (buoyed by large-scale orders) for the year. Chemical plants are a different story, but in terms of supplying arms, Germany is in a good place. If anything, arms orders (like Norway's recent tank purchase) are keeping the manufacturing sector afloat, since they're large and willing to pay the higher costs due to gas supply issues. Note: the Norwegian tank purchase from Germany should help point out how off the journalist's article is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silverblade

Your fucking insane government lied about the non-farm job figures cause like Europe and UK, they are NOSE diving

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You've been blind on how different NA and EU are when it comes to these things before. Are you shocked that an economy that has as much gas as it needs, and which produces tons of armaments, is doing well when there's a major conventional war and the primary "competition" has to deal with high gas prices? It's also worth noting that the employment figures aren't the indicator of economic health that they might normally be. This article is Canadian, not American, but we're seeing the same surge here so I'm guessing the analysis would also apply to the U.S.:

https://financialpost.com/executive/...interest-rates

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silverblade

Unlike our scumbag systems, the Russians didn't get rid of their manufacturing sector
Putin's been quietly breaking the Oligarchs of their power for over a decade
Their stuff WORKS, they have shit tons of it, and all we can reply with is drips and drabs and media lies

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Where to start with this pile of crap?

Russian manufacturing: not where it needs to be with very few exceptions when it comes to what matters, arms. Take the following analysis from The Jamestown Foundation, an American conservative think tank:

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-N...s-Economy.html

Still bullish on Russian manufacturing might?

On Putin "breaking the oligarchs": FFS, he IS one of the oligarchs. The only reasons that other oligarchs are going out windows (and you aren't in favour of that as a means to fix problems, are you?) are that he wants to eliminate opposition during a time where he appears weak, and to punish those whose corruption has put him in this position. Siphoning funds from the government is all good and fine until you take money from the armed forces and don't tell him before he invades a country.

On "their stuff works" etc.: their stuff is old and works like crap, they don't have half of what they thought they had and don't have a professional armed forces to use it, and those "drips and drabs" sure have been doing a great job, haven't they? Would Russia be buying drones from Iran if they had what they needed domestically? Would Putin be running around the country shitting on factory owners if he was happy with production levels? Would captured Russian soldiers be talking about how woefully under-supplied they are, or would Russian "Mothers of Troops" groups be complaining bitterly about the same thing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silverblade

we're manipulated worse than the Soviets or Nazis ever achieved!

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Well, you did use "we", meaning "Silverblade and the other people who believe this crap", so I'll have to give that one a Mostly True.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silverblade

Thank you for making "Fallout" a likely reality, Mind Controlled NPCs of Graffe's!

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Look at that, calling folks NPCs. Between that and "do your research", it's funny how you can pick up conservative talking points, and conservative phrases, but continue to fail to recognize what your sources actually are.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ruldar

To steal a quote from Twitter:



So yeah, don't believe his lies.

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Hersh had one good run with My Lai and has spent the rest of his time absolutely destroying whatever credibility he had

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silverblade-T-E

Babbling jibber jabber[/ATTACH]

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So - anything to say about the war crimes in Bucha, including beheadings carried out by Russian mercenaries?
Or the forced transfer of Ukrainians to Russia or Russian occupied areas?

Anything?

Bet if you do respond it will be with some nonsensical WHATABOUTISM.

PRove me wrong