[WoW] I Was a Teenage Alpha Tester

Thanks Whiz... very much what I wanted to hear.

I suppose my next question is on the Herbalism offshoot tradeskills, namely Alchemy and Enchanting.

Would it be too much of a generalisation if I were to say that the difference between them is that potions, which is what Alchemy is all about, affect the toon itself and enchantments from Enchanting work on the equipment (armor and weapons) of the toon?

Besides the expected health and mana potions, I have heard that Alchemy will at some stage allow things like invisibility potions and language potions. Which leads me to ask that besides the expected damage and defence enchantments, what can we expect to see as the other products of Enchanting?

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Originally Posted by Tidybowl

I suppose my next question is on the Herbalism offshoot tradeskills, namely Alchemy and Enchanting.

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Well, it's the gathering tradeskill that supports them, but it's also used for some Poison Making recipes, and I wouldn't be surprised to see herbs show up in others once in a while, too.

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Would it be too much of a generalisation if I were to say that the difference between them is that potions, which is what Alchemy is all about, affect the toon itself and enchantments from Enchanting work on the equipment (armor and weapons) of the toon?

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That's a fair characterization. In some cases, Alchemy makes subcomponents for tradeskill recipes, but yeah, it's 99.9 percent potions.

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Besides the expected health and mana potions, I have heard that Alchemy will at some stage allow things like invisibility potions and language potions.

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And swim speed, armor buff, strength buff, two very different running speed potions, etc.

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Which leads me to ask that besides the expected damage and defence enchantments, what can we expect to see as the other products of Enchanting?

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Add stats and resists to armor, add raw HP and mana to armor, add damage to weapons, add more damage to specialized targets only (like to beasts), temporarily imbue armor with damage absorption, etc.

Both recipes aren't in a final state, but Enchanting is still in the process of getting a lot more enchantments.

With racial bonuses out of the picture at the moment, I was wondering whether there was any reason to be of one race as opposed to another.

For instance, do the shorter stature of gnomes and dwarves make it easier for them to say, slip under certain obstacles like broken fenceposts than taller races like Taurens and Humans? However, I expect they don't see as far ahead in the field. ;)

So would it be accurate to say that Enchantments are WoW's answer to Augments? Do you know if Enchantments can be removed from an item if some better enchantment comes along?

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Originally Posted by Orbomaxx

So would it be accurate to say that Enchantments are WoW's answer to Augments? Do you know if Enchantments can be removed from an item if some better enchantment comes along?

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You certainly can. If you wanted to, say, put a leather armor patch on some boots that you already had augmented with +1 Stamina, you get a pop-up warning you that you're about to overwrite your previous improvement on your gear.

(Leatherworkers can make patches of light, medium and heavy leather that add armor class to boots, pants, gloves and breastplates.)

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Originally Posted by Tidybowl

For instance, do the shorter stature of gnomes and dwarves make it easier for them to say, slip under certain obstacles like broken fenceposts than taller races like Taurens and Humans? However, I expect they don't see as far ahead in the field. ;)

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During the tri-Horde push, you often heard tauren bitching about small orc huts they had trouble getting in and out of, while orcs and trolls (who walk very hunched over) could get into and out of just fine.

In constrast, dwarves and especially gnomes see a lot of the sides of counters and, as in EQ, find themselves having to hop around a lot in order to get up onto some surfaces and slopes.

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Originally Posted by Whizbang Dustyboots

Having said that, no one likes PVP more than a lot of the folks at Blizzard. Even the folks swinging their e-dicks the most can't keep up with them -- it'd be wise for everyone just to wait and see what the result is before angsting too much over it. I suspect we'll a) see instanced PVP that will please the consensual crowd and b) PVP servers that allow team-based and maybe even FFA PVP for those who really want that stuff as well..

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I think I would find that enjoyable - I quite liked the RvR in DAoC, just not all the time ( too much of a good thing and all ).

On the other hand, I don't believe that it's possible to make both the hardcore PKers and the PVE people happy no matter what you do. It's the same reason the red servers in EQ didn't work well and the same reason that the hardcore PK crowd sneer at instanced PVP areas - they don't want opponents, they want victims. The PVE crowd do not want to be victims. I'm not really sure how you would get around that, but I will be interested to see what Blizzard come up with.

By the way - thanks to all the alpha testers for the great writeup, this thread has been an excellent read.

Thank you for taking the time to write the review and answer questions!

I noticed that you mentioned a "level-based aggro" system to keep lowbies from entering high-level zones (e.g. a level 1 gnome enters a level 50+ zone and mobs from all corners trip over themselves in their haste to be first to eat him).

My concern: how exploitable is this? If a guild needs to cross a dangerous area, can they just create an "aggro mule" to draw the mobs to the far corner of the zone, thus allowing the rest of the guild to pass in relative safety?

Or can two level 1 characters play an 'aggro mule" leapfrog game on their own? For purposes of this example, say a "zone" area is roughly square. Newbie 1 starts out at the NW corner of the square. Newbie 2 starts out in the SW corner of the square. Newbie one steps over the "zone line" and all the mobs come a'runnin'. After a second, Newbie 2 races along the bottom of the "zone wall" in safety, from SW corner to SE corner. Newbie 1 steps back over the "zone line" and the high-level mobs "forget" about him and start to go home. At this point, Newbie 2 steps back inside the "zone" and the system repeats: mobs now go rushing for Newbie 2 in the SE corner, while Newbie 1 passes in safety along the "zone wall", NW to NE.

Are there controls in place to prevent this?

Thanks again for letting those of us who didn't get into the beta (and were careless enough to miss the application date!) live vicariously through you! :-)

Safe journeys to you.

The agro range isn't quite that large. :) You notice the level agro the most when you are in a group. I was the lowest member of the party in a little adventure we took into a mine the other night at lvl 15, the rest of the party was lvl 17-20. During any fights, i would get the most agro, i would also pull mobs if i got too close to them and we weren't ready, so i hung back from the rest so that wouldn't happen. It's not that you are an agro magnet across the zone, but compared to the rest of your party, and depending on the level difference, you could be very well labeled an "Agro Magnet".

As far as training mobs away to let others pass by, that is certainly possible, provided your trainer has the ability to withstand some damage or has an availble immunity spell (priest/paladin). However, there really isn't any reason to do this in the game. Generally, if you stick to the roads, you are more than 50% of the time safe from harm if you are careful and watch where you are going and what is around you.

The monsters only chase you for so long, and then turn around and head back.

Also, some of them run pretty darn fast, so a level 1 won't last long with even just one of those things catching up. There are special moves some monsters get, such as Hamstring which is also a Warrior ability, which slows an opponent. Then it's clobberin' time. ;)

After the horror that was Hillsbrad Foothills in the undead push, they've gone through and made roads more of a safe passage everywhere there's a road that anyone would patrol to keep clear (each faction can meet patrols they REALLY would rather avoid in the Arathi Highlands, of course).

And the two level 1s wouldn't work, because by the time you got the first one back as a ghost or whatever, the progess you'd made would be over.

Having said that, Pedi and I live by the "I aggro them, you go pull the named" (or whatever) system. Way too much Scooby Doo growing up.

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They joined the bandwagon too late, and will join EQ and UO in the backseat is all i'm saying.

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I bet every other game developer out there wishes it was doing as "poorly" as EQ and UO. And when I played UO, it was full of PvP (I actually quit literally a day or two before the split into Trammel and Felucca). I still remember running to the Columbine Memorial on the Napa Valley shard, and getting PKed on the way. Great fun. Yeah. Right. While there are undoubtedly a number of reasons that EQ clobbered UO, one of the biggest is non-consensual PvP. The majority of players don't like it, and that's pretty much all there is to it.

I don't think there should be straight PVP (unless there were some MAJOR consequences for unwarranted kills) and I don't think there should be "PVP only" servers. I think consentual and instanced PVP is a good idea. And I think it would appeal to some people who might not generally want to PVP at all.

For instance, if a one-time world-event (that was a major part of the story) were to happen and there was an open RvR battle for those that wished to join, that could be fun. If you wanted to fight, you could. If you didn't want to, you didn't have to. But it would be interesting to see the world change depending on who won. Not necessarily make the lives of the losers miserable, but maybe make it so that the winners would get something nice. Even if it's just the fact that the Orcs pushed the humans out of the city and the humans have to take up residence somewhere else.

Those who decided not to fight wouldn't have their lives changed dramatically, but they'd be a little upset they didn't help their "team" and at least do their part. It would be ideal if something like this event didn't happen on a regular basis. Something like a GM event, except much rarer (uber rare. Uber ultra mega rare).

I dunno. The idea that the world could change (even if just a little and not inconvience others too badly) by such an outcome would be intriguing to most folks, even the ones who normally don't do PvP. Like I said, it would all be 100% consentual and those who don't want to do it don't have to. But again, they'd most likely feel like draft dodgers and feel left out of a very rare occurance.

I think it could be fun. There is no griefing involved. There is no "I just want victims" mentality 100% of the time. It's there for those who want it, and it doesn't need to be engaged by those who don't.

This idea sounds perfectly fine for a game that's set in the world of warcraft.

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Originally Posted by Numbuk

For instance, if a one-time world-event (that was a major part of the story) were to happen and there was an open RvR battle for those that wished to join, that could be fun. If you wanted to fight, you could. If you didn't want to, you didn't have to. But it would be interesting to see the world change depending on who won. Not necessarily make the lives of the losers miserable, but maybe make it so that the winners would get something nice. Even if it's just the fact that the Orcs pushed the humans out of the city and the humans have to take up residence somewhere else.

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There's a nautical invasion of Durotar by Admiral Proudmoore's followers that's heavily foreshadowed. I wouldn't be surprised if it was something along the lines of what you're suggesting.

Has there been any talk of allowing any other horde races to become mages besides the Undead? Seems to me that not allowing any devout horde players any kind of choice in mage races will make many choose another class or choose the other faction which allows more choices per class.

Trolls can be mages, as of the tri-Horde push. They don't seem to have updated the official site yet.

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Originally Posted by Whizbang Dustyboots

Trolls can be mages, as of the tri-Horde push. They don't seem to have updated the official site yet.

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Oh good. I sent official feedback about that - and hadn't heard anything (and as you said, it hadn't been updated.) When I saw that Trolls couldn't be mages, I was all 'Um... aren't the witchdoctors essentially mages?'

Anyway - good to hear :)

I'll probably still stick with Tauren - but Trolls are a very close second (if they could only be druids - lol :)

Oh, do Trolls regen? Or was that a racial ability that is being revamped?

Demetrius

When trolls were made playable, all racial abilities were stripped out, so we never knew what was intended. There are "trolls' blood" regeneration potions in the game, though, so it's a good bet.

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Originally Posted by Velk

I think I would find that enjoyable - I quite liked the RvR in DAoC, just not all the time ( too much of a good thing and all ).

On the other hand, I don't believe that it's possible to make both the hardcore PKers and the PVE people happy no matter what you do. It's the same reason the red servers in EQ didn't work well and the same reason that the hardcore PK crowd sneer at instanced PVP areas - they don't want opponents, they want victims. The PVE crowd do not want to be victims. I'm not really sure how you would get around that, but I will be interested to see what Blizzard come up with.

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Couldn't agree more. I think it's very important to make the distinction between open PvP and team based RvR. DAoC basically has instanced and separate team PvP that people that do not want to take part in it, can avoid it their entire time in the game. I expect that WoW will have 1000x or more the PvE content DAoC had, so that it would support a PvE only gaming population.

I like the RvR when I want to do it, and I also like just chilling and PvEing, whether it's levelling or raiding in peace. Although to be honest, nothing gives a thrill so much as levelling/xping in a place where a PK can pop you at a vulnerable time, but more times than not, you want that /ding and you don't want to be bothered.

I hope that there are goals and a reason to RvR other than just to kill other factions. Just having a "battlegrounds" model of team PvP would get exceedingly old after a very short while. Maybe having rewards that are unique only to RvR play, just as there will be items that one can only acquire through raiding or dungeon crawling. Or possibly better yet having a system where RvR performance can maybe translate to your home lords rewarding you with a raid level item from the royal treasury. Basically giving identical rewards to players that want to PvE only, or to RvR only or a mix of both.

And I hope that the game is flexible enough to provide viable and meaningful team PvP for those that want it, those that want to just dabble in it, and those that never want to experience it at all. I have many friends that span the whole spectrum on this issue, and would like a game where all of them could be included.

Those that want to gank lowbies, well you have Shadowbane (or what's left of it after you got your hands on it). Don't paint team PvPers with the open griefer PK brush. It's not really accurate.

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Originally Posted by Attyla

I hope that there are goals and a reason to RvR other than just to kill other factions. Just having a "battlegrounds" model of team PvP would get exceedingly old after a very short while. Maybe having rewards that are unique only to RvR play, just as there will be items that one can only acquire through raiding or dungeon crawling. Or possibly better yet having a system where RvR performance can maybe translate to your home lords rewarding you with a raid level item from the royal treasury. Basically giving identical rewards to players that want to PvE only, or to RvR only or a mix of both.

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The announced plans since the beginning have been that they want to give PVP folks rewards that are comparable to what the non-PVP folks get (so no one is penalized for their preference) but with unique looks so you can see that their cool soulbound shield, or whatever, is the mark of someone who's been smiting the Horde up and down the coast.

I find this to be a good compromise -- make PVP something WANT to do, but don't force it upon them.