Serious Question on the "Right to Vote"
I'd like to preface my question with the following confession:
I never genuinely believed "Flat Earthers" truly existed. I believed people that argued in favor of the Earth being flat were Internet trolls trying to get a rise out of people.
This evening I met one. And my faith in humanity was traumatically shattered.
It's a very long story; I had a 2-hour long conversation at a bar with this gentlemen and several other people about various things... he seemed well educated, thoughtful, empathetic, etc and in the last five minutes learned he was a flat earther, he paid his tab and left.
The question I'm struggling with is... I'm sure this dude votes. Should this dumb mother fucker be allowed to vote, seriously? Should someone this disconnected from reality be able to vote on how we govern ourselves? Is that beneficial at all to our Democracy?
I was going to title this thread referencing the specific amendment granting U.S. citizens the right to vote when I suddenly learned that there isn't one lol. WTF? The 14th, 15th, and 19th prevents states from denying voting for specific criteria, but technically the Constitution doesn't say anywhere that all U.S. citizens are guaranteed the right to vote.
So my question. Should lunatics like flat earthers be allowed to vote?
Seriously struggling.
Re: Serious Question on the "Right to Vote"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nerkahia
Should lunatics like flat earthers be allowed to vote?
"Should morons be allowed to vote?"
If you want to preserve democracy, then, yes, as long as they're adult morons. Any other answer starts you down the path toward totalitarianism.
But not everyone necessarily venerates democracy. I suspect many people in the world value it far less than other things.
Re: Serious Question on the "Right to Vote"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nerkahia
So my question. Should lunatics like flat earthers be allowed to vote?
I agree with Ppatty, but instead of morons I'll throw anti-vaxxers out there as another example, because I consider them almost as crazy as flat earthers. I definitely am not extremely knowledgeable on the US constitution (and embarrassed to say I really should know more), but it would seem voting would be in there as an inalienable right.
Re: Serious Question on the "Right to Vote"
The point of democracy is to represent the people, and if the people are morons then the country will reflect that. You could argue that the fact that morons can vote is why we are able to get along in a civilized society at all. It's not like you can say someone is too stupid to vote and they would just agree. They would grow resentful and eventually fight for control themselves.
It may be worth pointing out that human beings are fairly complex. A PHD doesn't immunize someone from being an anti-vaxxer, and similarly believing that lizard people are real and invented Cheez Whiz to entice aliens to our planet doesn't stop someone from being a great engineer, or having keen diplomatic instincts, or whatever. Most of us are both geniuses and morons, depending on the situation.
The lure of order, control, and efficiency may be enticing, but this chaotic hodgepodge of different varieties of stupid is what liberty is all about! If you truly believe in diversity of thought, hug your nearest imbecile today!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nerkahia
my faith in humanity
That was your first mistake!
firsttimememe.jpg
:monkey:
Re: Serious Question on the "Right to Vote"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nerkahia
So my question. Should lunatics like flat earthers be allowed to vote?
Seriously struggling.
Serious answer:
Maybe.
There are 2 ways of looking at that question:
1) should lunatics/morons/etc be allowed to vote in the United States of America, as it is presently constructed?
The answer to that one is an emphatic "YES", based on state and federal law and Constitutional Amendments.
2) should lunatics/morons/etc be allowed to vote in a society that prioritizes stability, rationality, and accountability?
The answer to that one is "probably not". Idiots undermine democratic societies because they violate the underlying assumptions of a democracy. They are not rational actors. They are not well (or even poorly) informed. They do not make decisions based on facts or even their own self-interest. They effectively act as semi-random agents of chaos that undermine the stability of the country itself.
And that's the best case scenario.
In a modern society, they are not just agents of chaos; they are weapons that can be aimed directly at the structures of society itself.
So yeah. Probably shouldn't let them vote.
Now, how do you restrict idiots from voting such that the restricting mechanism can't also be weaponized by bad actors to restrict their opponents' voting rights?
Good question. Let me know if you think of a solution. In the meantime, we're stuck with them.
EDIT - because Wool made an important point that I want to highlight: "The point of democracy is to represent the people, and if the people are morons then the country will reflect that."
Any rational society would want its citizens to NOT BE MORONS, so it would prioritize both education and indoctrination (for lack of a better word) of its national ideals. Not blind nationalism, but shared ideals. That focus would ensure both a relatively well-run society, and increase the likelihood of the society's survival.
And while he's also correct that education alone does not inoculate anyone entirely against bizarre conspirational thinking, it does help. But it needs to be buttressed by reinforcing strong ideals that fit the lived experiences of the citizens.
Re: Serious Question on the "Right to Vote"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zarbonius
Now, how do you restrict idiots from voting such that the restricting mechanism can't also be weaponized by bad actors to restrict their opponents' voting rights? Good question. Let me know if you think of a solution. In the meantime, we're stuck with them.
Thus, the oft-cited description of democracy often traced to a Churchill speech in 1947 but articulated more concisely 24 years earlier by a writer named Israel Zangwill:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Israel Zangwill
But I recognize that democracy is the least bad form of government.
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Re: Serious Question on the "Right to Vote"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PPatty
Thus, the oft-cited description of democracy often traced to a Churchill speech in 1947 but articulated more concisely 24 years earlier by a writer named Israel Zangwill:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Israel Zangwill
But I recognize that democracy is the least bad form of government.
Which is why I support Managed Democracy - the best of all forms of government, and the strongest foundation for a truly Super Earth.
Attachment 7005
:cool:
Re: Serious Question on the "Right to Vote"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nerkahia
I'd like to preface my question with the following confession:
I never genuinely believed "Flat Earthers" truly existed. I believed people that argued in favor of the Earth being flat were Internet trolls trying to get a rise out of people.
This evening I met one. And my faith in humanity was traumatically shattered.
It's a very long story; I had a 2-hour long conversation at a bar with this gentlemen and several other people about various things... he seemed well educated, thoughtful, empathetic, etc and in the last five minutes learned he was a flat earther, he paid his tab and left.
The question I'm struggling with is... I'm sure this dude votes. Should this dumb mother fucker be allowed to vote, seriously? Should someone this disconnected from reality be able to vote on how we govern ourselves? Is that beneficial at all to our Democracy?
I was going to title this thread referencing the specific amendment granting U.S. citizens the right to vote when I suddenly learned that there isn't one lol. WTF? The 14th, 15th, and 19th prevents states from denying voting for specific criteria, but technically the Constitution doesn't say anywhere that all U.S. citizens are guaranteed the right to vote.
So my question. Should lunatics like flat earthers be allowed to vote?
Seriously struggling.
About 14 years ago I learned about "Chem trails."
Not that I was suddenly aware nmat that moment that they existed, but that people believe they exist.
That and haarp being a mind control device.
I used to fly airplanes. Once in a while, I still do.
I have many friends who are pilots. They get asked the question all the time, "is this plane equipped with the Chem trail ballast?" "when do you guys turn on the Chem trails?"
People are fucking stupid. Just like the anti vax and flat earth. People will deny deny deny becuase they can't figure out how insane it is to believe faith where the arguments of irrationality have to exist within boundaries and constraints that rely on the absurd for conditional environments to allow these faiths (let's face it, all of these conspiracies are based on faith, becuase they are too easily disproven) to exist inside the rational world of possibilities that involve simple use of the scientific method to prove.
There are far too many crazies in this world, but they exist because they just don't have the mental flexibility or endurance and did not learn proven ways of observation and research to truly discover what is and is not real.
Most of the time, these are the crazy ones that take "I have concepts of a plan" as genius and say idiotic things like, "Trump plays 4d chess."
Welp. Guess what. If you understand how to play chess, you are *always* playing it in the 4th dimension.
Re: Serious Question on the "Right to Vote"
I want to go back to land holding men being the only ones who can vote.
Re: Serious Question on the "Right to Vote"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DmitrytheWizzy
I want to go back to land holding men being the only ones who can vote.
I'd be OK with that as long as all genders are redefined as "men" and the government guarantees a plot of land for every man.
Re: Serious Question on the "Right to Vote"
I think everyone should be able to vote but voting doesn't actually do anything. Wait, that's the system we have now. Wakka wakka.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PPatty
I'd be OK with that as long as all genders are redefined as "men" and the government guarantees a plot of land for every man.
Supposedly in the original Old English, "man" was gender neutral and both men and women had their own distinguishing word, wer and wif. I thought that was interesting. It also amuses me to imagine someone's head spinning to learn their conservative roots are more liberal than they are.
Re: Serious Question on the "Right to Vote"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DmitrytheWizzy
I want to go back to land holding men being the only ones who can vote.
Then move to a Muslim nation that practices shirai law.
This is the land of the free, bitch.
Re: Serious Question on the "Right to Vote"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tinthalas Tigris
Then move to a Muslim nation that practices shirai law.
This is the land of the free, bitch.
LOL you are pretty clearly delusional. Heatstroke?
Re: Serious Question on the "Right to Vote"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DmitrytheWizzy
LOL you are pretty clearly delusional. Heatstroke?
You’ve always been a bitch. I respect you for it.
There are few nations that grant its citizens as much freeedom we enjoy. Granted, times are certainly changing.
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Re: Serious Question on the "Right to Vote"
Maybe it won't really be a question that you have to grapple with that much longer.
If you haven't look at the newest report from 2026 on the biggest international studies on democracy. The US section is bleak.
The site:
https://v-dem.net/
The 2026 report:
https://v-dem.net/documents/75/V-Dem...026_lowres.pdf
Attachment 7006
Re: Serious Question on the "Right to Vote"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PPatty
But not everyone necessarily venerates democracy. I suspect many people in the world value it far less than other things.
Case in point:
https://www.axios.com/2026/03/31/dem...ia-heavy-users
Re: Serious Question on the "Right to Vote"
We're gonna fix it so good, you won't have to do it anymore.
Re: Serious Question on the "Right to Vote"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PPatty
Well fortunately, heavy social media users are a pretty small minority of the population, right?
...right?
:(
Re: Serious Question on the "Right to Vote"
Ownership of land within the United States should be exclusively reserved for U.S. citizens. Furthermore, the privilege of voting should be extended solely to landowners and individuals who have served in the military. This approach would swiftly eliminate those deemed irresponsible, inexperienced, or easily influenced, individuals who may lack the capacity for critical thinking. While no system is without flaws, this method would ensure that those casting votes are genuinely invested in the wellbeing and future of the nation.
